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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Thousand Hills, Dec 4, 2014.
Lou Holtz - bless his heart :tear:
Well that is so sweet! I have always been given to understand that the vast majority of Christians do not recognise Catholics as Christians!
You live in the Bible Belt right? Poke your head out of your area...take a ride to Massachusetts, RI, Downstate NY, NJ & Pa. You will find yourself surrounded by Catholics.....and with all this Latin influx coming into the country.....
I will tell you this, most assuredly.....Roman Catholics are growing very rapidly. Get used to it & maybe take some Spanish language courses. :laugh:
Melanie, you seem like a very sweet person. I'm not sure however how you deduced that was the point of my op.
I came across this and figured I would share with the Baptist Board. OCD seemed like the best place to post it, I guess I could have put it in the sports section?
EWF, your right, my exposure to Catholics has been very limited, other than a few in the extended family who are? is? was?
However, what I gleaned from the video is:
Do nice things...
It all adds up to a big pile of doo......:laugh:
No thanks, I'll take rest in what Christ has done!
The Southern Baptist equivalent of this video would feature Bobby Bowden encouraging the wayward inactive members on the bloated rolls at your friendly neighborhood first church. I'm sure at least one scene would include a pot luck.
Believe it or not - there are Baptists who are not Christians.
You become a Christian by being born again - + nothing - minus nothing.
There are those trusting in their works in any and every group
I agree. There are far too many Baptists who believe they're saved because they had some kind of emotional reaction to an altar call or somebody convincing them at nine years old to "accept Jesus into their heart" (whatever that means). I talk to Baptists all the time who say, when I ask them "When did you first become aware of your sin and repent", that they signed a card or walked an aisle or raised their hand or prayed a canned prayer. And upon further examination, we find that they have no clue what the Gospel is. That's a terrible failure on our part as Baptists.
But the difference is that, by and large, the Gospel as preached by most Baptists is orthodox and gives an adequate explanation of man's sinfulness, his enmity with God, God's plan of salvation and the need to repent and receive Christ and His atonement on the cross by faith. Reformed or Arminian, the ingredients are typically there.
Catholicism, on the other hand, is the religious equivalent of two mobsters walking in and saying, "Nice immortal soul you've got here. Be a real shame if something happened to it. We can make sure that doesn't happen". And then they deny the sufficiency of Christ's atonement through Purgatory, usurp the authority and exclusivity of Christ through the self-proclaimed authority and rituals of the Catholic Church, teach them the gospel of infused righteousness, a gospel that comes and goes literally with every act, good or bad, and saddles them with rules and rituals, making them twice the sons of Hell as themselves.
The damnable doctrines of the Catholic Church have sent countless millions to Hell and cannot save.
As you should....that's why its necessary to really study your bible. Some Catholics do but I cant recall any RC ever going into any type of exhaustive study regimen. They hear readings from the pulpit & that unfortunately is it. Thats why they "DO" those things, cause they are not moored in scripture....sad really. But God can work wonders on the heart & conscience once the person is regenerated.
Please do not think I was having a " go" at anyone. I have been priveledged being a long time member of this board. I am certainly in a Bible Belt in one of the most secular States on earth, that being New Zealand. Where I live there is a history of a saint, a wonderful Catholic nun who worked in Jerusalem up the Whanganui River amongst the large population of Maori that was and is here. My little town has a large Bretheren and Quaker communities. There is also a sizeable Catholic community that adheres to the catholic faith taught prior Vatican 2. Surprisingly or maybe not, there is also a large Wikkan community.
I do not think debating the differences between Catholicism as I see it, as the modernist RCC sees it and the Protestant churches see their faith has much point....certainly I am not trained in this.
I will say only this, Jesus could have spilt one drop of his blood and redeemed us, He did not. The fact that His passion was so ghastly must indicate how wretched our fall from Grace. I cannot save my soul in any shape or form, only the Grace of my Redeemer can do this. I try to imitate His love as a sign of my desire to confirm to His Will, rather than go my merry way.
I may have stated the above in a clumsy way but it is sincere.
You have stated the Catholic faith well, my sister in Christ. The majority on this board will never believe it, but you have stated EXACTLY what the catechism teaches us. Have a blessed Advent season. I am enjoying the first week of Advent. I only wish that our protestant/evangelical brethren would play along. There is a very large Baptist church in our area which is having its Christmas extravaganza December 9-14. Their website features video clips of a stage full of dancing Santas, a chorus line of women dressed in short Claus-like costumes, Victorian ballroom dancers, lots of Christmas trees and presents and of course a Nativity scene. All presented so the you too can receive the “true meaning of Christmas”. Tickets are available for $15-$80. For a slight additional charge, you can also join in the “Christmas Feast”.
Of course, these are the same people who will cry out at “Happy Holidays” and the “commercialization” of Christmas. They seem to be straining credibility in their arguments.
The sad part is, while their magnitude is excessive, they are not alone in this. Too many churches are doing similar programs well before the 25th.
Im curious Walter, please tell me where you find Advent in scripture.
The word Advent is derived from the Latin words, ad-venio or adventus, which both signify a coming. The word itself is not found in scripture (but then, neither is the word Christmas that I believe you and almost ALL evangelicals celebrate). To quote a great saint: "We know that there are three comings of the Lord. The third lies between the other two. It is invisible while the other two are visible. In the first coming He was seen on earth, dwelling among men; in the final coming "all flesh will see the salvation of our God and they will look upon Him whom they have pierced". The intermediate coming is a hidden one; in it only the elect see the Lord within their own selves, and they are saved.
In His first coming our Lord came in our flesh and our weakness; in this middle coming He comes in Spirit and in power; in the final coming he will be seen in glory and in majesty.
Because this coming lies between the other two, it is like a road on which we travel from the first coming to the last."
St. Bernard of Clairveaux
:thumbsup: But only in the context that not all “Christians” are Christian ("Baptist" as a "Christian" denomination assumes Christianity).
The coming of what?
What came on December 25th was the first discernible day after the shortest day of the year (Dec.21), that was perceptibly longer. Thus a great drunken festival and orgy was held to their god, the Sun God, because before that time they lived in fear that "god" would die, and disappear completely. Now they could rejoice. This is the origin of "Christ-mas" [ie. "mass of Christ" totally Catholic, but originates after a pagan festival].
The thinking goes something like this. "The pagans get a festival, so shouldn't we get one too." Pretty lame thinking if you ask me! And so the celebration of the birth of Christ began, and the drunkenness, the party-going, the good-times all continued with it. That is why it is a "merry ol' season isn't it.
Consider the rest of paganism incorporated, much of what you referred to:
Santa Claus: What has that got to do with the birth of Christ?
And the song goes: "He knows if you've been bad, and knows when you've been good, etc." IOW, Santa is omniscient and takes the place of God. That is blasphemous. Prayer is made to Santa. Letters are sent asking Santa to grant their wishes. It is another form of idolatry.
But then so is the commercialism--another form of idolatry. You really don['t understand idolatry until you become a Spirit-filled born again Christian. I don't believe a Catholic can be saved and at the same time understand and believe salvation and understand and believe the RCC doctrine concerning salvation. They contradict each other. You can't believe both at the same time and still be saved.
ALL? I am evangelical. I don 't celebrate Christmas. It is a pagan festival.
The first century Christians celebrated the death of their saints (and in God's eyes the death of his saints is precious).
There is no recorded date for the birth of Christ.
There are no records for any celebration of the birth of Christ by early Christians.
The most accurate records show that Christ was born in the spring, around April. At the end of the December it would be too cold for the shepherds to be out in their fields. Other calendar facts don't add up.
It is guess work. You have one in 365 chances of being right, and the historical and contextual evidence is against you, making the odds even greater.
Good stuff DHK, be careful though, you'll be called a scrooge.
Nonsense! Christians were celebrating Christ's birth 75 years before the pagans began a celebration of 'the sun-god'. Do a little research. The early Catholics were led by the Apostles who were Jews, thus they were affected by their Jewish customs of honoring God. The early Catholics found it appropriate to commemorate the Lord’s coming into the world in the Festival of Light wherein thousands of believers were joining in a solemn procession carrying candles and torches toward the Temple. The Bible clearly teaches that after the Ascension of the Lord the Apostles continued going into the Temple and worshipping there [Acts 3:1]. When the Temple was destroyed the Christians continued these lightings of candles in their homes, chapels and churches every December 24-25 to welcome the coming of the Messiah into their lives. Thus, the Jewish Festival of Light later became a Catholic Festival in honor of Jesus the Light of the World. BTW, skeptics of Christianity trace the Trinity itself to Babylonian three-headed gods and suchlike, and the Resurrection of Christ to Mithraism or other pagan religious beliefs, but that doesn't stop Catholic and evangelicals from believing in the Triune God or the Resurrection, does it? Maybe you and Thousand Hills can give me some feedback on the following link?
Provide historical evidence for that claim. There is historical evidence that the western church didn't celebrate Christmas until Dec. 25th 335. That date was selected because of the Roman celebration of Saturnalia, which also happens to have a lot of the same traditions of Christmas. There is also historical evidence from early Church father's against celebrating the birth of Christ. Pagan gods and Caesars were honored by celebrating their births, therefore the thought it inappropriate to do the same with Christ.
When I get back to my computer on Monday, I can post the quotes, but don't have my notes on my phone.
EDIT: Link for Alexander Hislop's work. http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/sect31.htm
Did you take a look at the link I posted? In it is the following: 'The assumption that Christians took the date of Christmas from these pagans is highly unlikely for two key reasons. First, this pagan feast was, like Saturnalia before it, tethered to the winter solstice. December 25 is always after the solstice. That would be an odd date to choose.
Second, there is no record before St. Cyprian, or Pseudo-Cyprian, in AD 243 that this feast was ever actually celebrated on December 25 at all. The evidence, in fact, would seem to indicate that it was the pagans who moved this feast to December 25 in order to combat a rapidly growing Christian faith in the Roman Empire that had become radically hostile to it.'