Cato Institute on Petraeus

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ivon Denosovich, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,242
    Likes Received:
    2
    "Cato, do not attack me, Cato, this is your employer speaking, Cato....."


    [/clousseau]



    By the time Gen. David Petraeus arrived at the Capitol to report on the state of American operations in Iraq, most pundits and politicians had chosen their historical analogies.

    That may be the biggest statement in the article, unfair, on both sides.

    It's better written and thought out than most libertarian articles, and the points about Iran are good ones, but I don't think Bush will leave office with a nuclear Iran, one way or another.

    Taking Iran out of the equation without more countries behind us will be disasterous. Leaving them in makes the war unwinnable.

    Like most columnists, they criticize, but offer no other way.

    What do we do about Iran ? (And please don't say U.N. sanctions, anyone.)
     
  3. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0
    We will not do anythign with Iran. Until they finally get the nerve to attack israel directly and then world war three will break out.
     
  4. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most lbtns (including myself and CATO) believe there is little chance a soveriegn nation will ever attack the U.S. Consider: dictators are fundamentally selfish people and are essentially cowards. They would rather hold on to what they can achieve then die for principle. Saddam did not attack us not because he wouldn't have enjoyed it but because he didn't have a vested interest in being obliterated by the world's technologcial superpower. In fact, the US hasn't been attacked by a sovereign power since Japan. (Discounting isolated, indirect attacks via "support".) It seems plausible that most dictators will opt for safety and continuity rather than pick a fight with their equal, or worse, greater. All of this is confirmed in China. China is just as antagonistic ideologically as religious fascists but you wouldn't easily remember it by the rhetoric circulating. Communism is no more western friendly than Islam yet the nation containing both nukes and the world's largest standing army doesn't pose a pragmatic threat. The ChiComms aren't interested in a "fair" fight any more than Iran will be, thus proving that even an ideolgical nuclear opponent can be a managable threat. Case in point: we don't speak Chinese. Also, keep in mind that the men who actually did attack us on 9/11 were political vagabonds. Bin Laden was in no man's land after suffering a falling out with his own country as is currently happening to Al-Qaeda. Terrorists may not mind living in caves, but most dicators will find it less than foppish.
     
    #4 Ivon Denosovich, Sep 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2007
  5. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    The foreign policy gap between lbtns and pubs is narrowing considerably. Wallstreet Journal editorialist and former Reagan speechwriter, Peggy Noonan wrote last Friday:

    "An unspoken part of the larger story is that Gen. Petraeus backed up the argument that our troops have been stretched painfully thin, and the postsurge presence cannot, practically, be maintained. Thus a seeming illogic in the general's presentation: For the first time in years we're making progress, therefore we should reduce troop levels to the same point at which we made no progress. "

    (The entire text found here http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010599)

    While Noonan, like the Journal, doesn't support a full blown withdrawal, it seems she is joining an ever broader group of war skeptics pondering the realism of a Muslim Democracy.
     
  6. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0
    The results are in. The surge is working. Facts are facts.
     
  7. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    :) Yes, the surge worked. No one argues that holding a gun to someone's head 24/7 cannot alter behavior. The point is, and this was Noonan's point (a supporter of the war and well established Republican), that we are now ending the surge.

    So, if 1) The surge worked and 2) we're ending the surge then 3) the future looks bleak.
     
    #7 Ivon Denosovich, Sep 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2007
  8. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suspect that being a conservative, 2 Timothy 2:1-4, that you and I agree that the Iraqi's have to start helping themselves at some point. And that point is likely to be now or never. Our military doesn't exist to perform humanitarian missions for needy peoples. Nor can it do so forever regardless of any temporary success stories.
     
  9. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure we do. But it is fool hardy to think if we just pull out everything will be ok. and whether you aree with how we got int their or not it is obvious that we have a responsibility because we have been there. MY only problem is that if the parliment takes one more vacation while our troops are dying they can have it themsleves.
     
  10. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think pulling out will make everything okay. I think it will make American soldiers safer with little to no security loss. Iraq has never and will never be okay. Such is the destructive force that is Islam.
     
  11. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent point about parliament vacationing at our expense, btw. I'm afrad at this point though the Iraqi's know they have the current powers that be caught in a potential political catastrophe and subsequently cannot be pressured.
     
  12. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    If we had 500,000 troops in Iraq then I think that we could pacify the country. However, I don't thimk that the White House nor the Congress is willing to make this commitment.
     

Share This Page

Loading...