Cause and Effect/Conditions of Salvation

In Romans 10 regeneration happens in response to belief. And Salvation is the result of acting on that belief - in confession.

In John 16 Christ said that it is the Act of God - to DRAW ALL mankind unto Himself. That supernatural drawinig of God - enables all mankind to come to Him if they so choose and it also enables them to choose if they are willing.

As God said in Genesis 3 "I will put war and hatred between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent". Alhtough our nature is sinful - God places a supernatural degree of war between the soul and the kingdom of Satan. There is also the supernatural drawing of God - thus the lost sinful soul is "enabled" to choose life if the person really wants it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

True.

Allowing "for evil" is like saying "I showed my child how to ride the bike - but I am allowing for the condiition that they just might fall a few times while riding that bike

Thus to "allow for a condition" in which they might fall -- by not physically putting your hand on the bike and never letting them ride the bike alone - is not the same thing as "making them fall".

The parent always wants the child to grow and learn.

The parent knows this will not happen if you treat the child like a toy doll and never let him/her do anything on their own.

in Christ,

Bob

 

If you knew by allowing your child to ride the bike your child would be killed, would you still allow your child to ride the bike?

:jesus:

 

And they "believers" shall NEVER perish.....why? Because it's Eternal Life! Can they backslide? Yes. Can they perish? No!

 

That's to simple brother!

Don't be throwing words like "never" and "eternal" around. They are much to specific and there would not be any debate boards over this subject anymore. Let's all pretend they do not exist. :thumbs:

 

>In John 16 Christ said that it is the Act of God - to DRAW ALL mankind unto Himself.

If this is NOT hyperbole then EITHER all men are drawn to him OR God has substantially failed.

What does "drawn" mean in this context?

 

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

I do believe DHK made it very clear......but I suppose HP is getting his dancing shoes ready to try and dance his way out of this corner.

 

I looked at several versions and they all say "will never" or "shall never".

Don't know where HP got the "should not".

:jesus:

 

I believe HP was thinking of John 3:16....opps I am helping HP now!

 

In the case of john 3, some translations say "will not" some "shall not" and some "should not".

The NIV says,

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,* that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Now if HP wants to abide by his words, "There is a clear distinction between 'shall not' as you say and "should not", then he has some explaining to do. If his premise was that "shall not" would be OSAS and "should not" would allow for the possibility of losing one's salvation then praise the Lord we have a new convert to the camp!

He might have to wiggle a bit on this one. One of those "I spoke in haste" moments no doubt, but he will have to do some back peddling or believe in OSAS now.

:jesus:

 

Matt 18 provides the example given by Christ of "forgiveness revoked"

John 15:1-6 gives the example provided by Christ of "branches in Me" that are "removed" and cast into the fire.

Romans 11 gives the warning via the writing of Paul "you should fear for you stand only by your faith - if He did not spare them neither will He spare you".

The references keep going - but you get the general idea.

 

Of course there is no such doctrine as "forgiveness revoked." It is a unique "Bob Ryan" doctrine only, never to be found in Scriptures. It is derived from a parable, a parable which does not teach doctrine, but only is intended to illustrate doctrine already previously taught in the Bible. Bob's doctrine is not taught anywhere else in the Bible, thus making his eisegesis of the parable moot.

 

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


The Pharisees of Jesus' time had difficulty understanding the word of truth as well. They insisted they knew the law and how to apply it. It is no surprise that there would be modern day Pharisees today who still want the law, as they see it, to be the mark of salvation.

:jesus:

 

Watching too much Dancing with the Stars? lol You tried to point out to us something YOU was clearly wrong about.....so you now avoid the "Shall NEVER perish" text? Come now let's be reasonable. If you was clearly in the wrong .........what do you do with the text now?