CBF Teenaged girl makes ignorant statement and shows the error of CBF's teaching

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    A teenage girl who is a member of a CBF Church in Florida under the interim leadership of Randall Lolley, made a very ignorant statement about the Bible at the BWIM conference at the CBF convention in 2001, and in the process, exposed the very heart of the error of liberal teaching about the Bible. As many of you know, I have for a long time supported the idea of women in ministry theologically,(although, I am constantly questioning the wisdom of it practically). But, this is certainly not an argument I would have ever considered using:

    http://www.baptistpress.com/bpnews.asp?ID=11228

    1. The word of Paul IS the Word of God. Those in the CBF don't believe that, and this girl who has sat under one of their leader's teaching has proved it.
    2. I don't believe that God and Paul contradict each other.
    3. A much better argument would have been to question the interpretation of what Paul says, but not the validity. That is the height of heresy, and why I have gone from a CBF defender to pretty much siding with Patterson and Mohler.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Joseph, don't you mean you are siding with truth? Anyway, for those who don't know, Lolley was the former president of Southeastern when it was in the grips of ignorance and liberalism, but I repeat myself. He is scum.

    The attitude of this girl is just so laughable it is sad.

    She apparently feels this mythical, mystical "call" that is as subjective as each individual.
     
  3. go2church

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    I think in a teenager type way that is what she was saying. I would caution taking the statement of a teenager as a absolutely accurate reflection of the WHOLE of the churches doctrine/ teaching. This is probably a real good place for the benefit of the doubt, so to speak.

    What?
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    The response of the liberal crowd - laughter, etc - belies the seriousness of the issue. CBF seems to have a wide umbrella that accepts anyone except a bible-believer.
     
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Just because Russell Moore claims it happened this way doesn't mean it is anywhere near accurate. He has lied* about the events of CBF meetings a number of times before and I suspect he is not above doing it again. The girl may have spoken and said these foolish things and some CBF attendees may have laughed at a portion of her speech, but I suspect there is quite a bit that has been left out.

    * I investigated a number of Moore's stories from the CBF General Assembly in Fort Worth a few years ago and discovered that he took bits of truth, discarded anything that didn't fit his premise, and wove the carefully selective bits of truth together to create the worst possible implications regarding the CBF for his story. I documented it on BaptistBoard if anyone cares to search for it. While he and Baptist Press may tell themselves that everything they said was true, I am certain God has condemned it as a lie. Russell Moore doesn't seem to know the meaning of the phrase, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

    Yes, the writings of Paul collected in the New Testament is the word of God.

    The misinformed statement of a 12 or 13-year-old girl at a CBF meeting do not "prove" anything about the beliefs of the organization. Believe it or not, not everyone in CBF believes exactly the same things in the same way. They are like every other Baptist body in the sense that there is a substantial amount of diversity of opinion among the members.

    I certainly don't either. Paul was a disciple of Jesus, and his writings should be read in light of Christ's teachings. There is no conflict.

    I agree completely.
     
  6. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Scraping the bottom of the bowl a little are we not?

    Would we devote a thread to a statement that was not scriptural by a church member of an SBC or IFB church?
     
  7. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    A young woman from a local country Baptist church told me she'd recognize Jesus right away when she got to heaven because of all the pictures she's seen of Him. :eek:
     
  8. untangled

    untangled
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    I faced too much of that when I went to Campbell. I don't believe in CBF. They are only going to grow even more liberal. I know of a CBF congregation that has a lesbian couple as members. No, they don't hold hands or nothing in church and they don't say they are, but I know them both. The pastor must either be liberal or blind. Not sure which.

    I do not see a biblical basis for women in Pastoral ministry myself. In my experience I have never met a female pastor that did not have liberal feminist theology. I went to school with a few of them.
     
  9. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Over-reacting to statements made by little girls got a bunch of people burned in Salem a couple hundred years ago.

    lacy
     
  10. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Ben,

    Those who have been around long enough can attest to the fact that I used to be very anti-SBC Conservative resurgence and used to do exactly what you seem to be insinuating I wouldn't do. Perhaps, if you check the archives far enough back, you will find some of these threads.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Of course, the implication that I violent mob mentallity is dishonest, pandering to emotions, insulting. The clear difference is that I don't wish to burn her at the stake for being wrong about the Bible.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. gb93433

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    It wasn't too long ago that an SBC DOM and a former SWBTS trustee told me they would not preach 1 Cor. 13:2. I told them I was preaching through 1 Cor. at the time and then asked what they would suggest. Their suggestion was to skip it and say nothing. Is that the kind of ignorance the SBC promotes from its leaders? But at the same time these two men claimed to believe the Bible. I told both of them that if I was unwilling to deal with it then how could I expect the congregation to study their Bible. So the idea is to teach the easy stuff and give out sugar water?
     
  13. mioque

    mioque
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    "got a bunch of people burned in Salem a couple hundred years ago."
    "
    They were hung actually, burning at the stake thankfully never got exported to New England.
     
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim
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    OTOH, perhaps the group listening to the girl laughed at her laughable remark because it is so laughable?
    In His service;
    Jim
     
  15. Gina B

    Gina B
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    My goodness, the child is in 6th grade, so she's 11 or 12. You're gonna use the words of a preteen to judge that whole segment of the church?
    THAT is laughable, or would be if it wasn't so sad. Write the CHILD a kind letter if you're concerned for her soul.
    My 9 year old told me that she had a dream that God was sitting in a chair sipping a soda, watching TV while people were being bad and fighting and killing each other and he didn't do anything. She goes to an IFB church. Is the whole IFB church promoting visions of an inactive and uncaring God?
    Gina
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    1. I never said I was concerned for her soul. I did say that she showed her ignorance and exposed the heretical teaching of the leaders of her Church.

    2. This is one of the heretical teachings of liberals within the CBF. I know this first hand as I have friends who are either in the CBF or have been in the CBF and this is one of the arguments they used.

    3. Having been to several state conventions and at least one national convention for the SBC, and other organizations, I know that people who are slated to speak usually have their speeches pre-screened. If the CBF had a problem with any of her theology, they would have asked her to change what she was going to say and corrected her incorrect theology. They did not.

    4. Did God not sit by and allow Job to be tested by Satan? Do you think he was an inactive and uncaring God? I don't.

    5. What do IFB's teach about salvation? Do they believe in free will or the sovereignty of God?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Thay may be true for the organization but not at all true for many I know who are in the CBF. A number have decided to be a part of the CBF simply because they are tired of the lies and exaggerations of the SBC. For them it is not about doctrine but about missions and freedom of conscience. Personally I think both are headed for failure. It is already happening.

    God does not bless shamans. He blesses those who live for him. God does not bless organizations but people. Many good organizations have become corrupt over time by not maintaining their focus on God.
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    The CBF is not a "Church". It is a loosely-affiliated network of churches and individuals who work together for common causes. They stress the autonomy of the local church far more than what the SBC stresses, therefore they are likely to be much more divergent in belief than the SBC. There are a number of true "liberals" in the organization, but most folks are "moderate" and/or "conservative."

    Yes, I have heard this sort of thing before as well. Of course, the beliefs of a few do not dictate the beliefs of everyone in the CBF. (The trend in the SBC seems to go the other direction.)

    I sincerely doubt the CBF does this... it would be foreign to their polity.

    Of course your line of reasoning demands that the CBF be structured and managed the same way the SBC is structured and managed. I think everyone knows that is not true.

    Certainly. [​IMG] God even suggested it to the adversary - "Have you considered my servant, Job?"
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    I'm coming to the same conclusion. I think the SBC and CBF are nearly irrelevant at this point. The BGCT (Baptist General Convention of Texas) is scrambling to reorganize at this time, but I think it will also be irrelevant in a few years unless they focus more completely on being a resource for churches.

    God seems to be passing by the old structures and building new church-based loose associations that will be the front lines for spiritual renewal and growth throughout the world.
     
  20. gb93433

    gb93433
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    I think you are right. Just a few years ago a survey was give to the theology students at SWBTS. About one third wanted to be pastors the other two thirds wanted to be a part of a parachurch organization or start a ministry. Certainly it tells what they think of the current church condition.
     

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