CBS and Democratic Lies--not even good lies

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Major B, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. Major B

    Major B
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    If it was not such a serious topic, I would be rolling on the floor in laughter over the silly, amateurish, and blatantly partisan gaffe by CBS in producing "evidence" and "memos" about President Bush and his guard service--because they are blatantly false. Equally humorous are the comments made by Democratic politicians and reporters (forget the fiction that the press is neutral) who examine with a fine-tooth comb the flying records of Dubya, when they obviously have no knowledge whatsoever of flight operations.

    "Bush required several approaches to actually land his aircraft." Yeah, we call those maneuvers "touch and go", and they are usually PLANNED part of the training, Bozo. "Bush required extra training, so he had to fly in a 2-seat aircraft." He was not getting as many hours as before because of budgetary restraints, because he was nearing the end of his service, and because the ops people have to manage the hours so as to train the new pilots. I could go on, but you get the picture. It sounds like a group of monkeys discussing calculus--no useful comments there.

    Then there is the memo fiasco. First of all, if you are going to be a crook, CBS, be a smart crook. Find some lackey who is still alive to make your bogus claims. Or, if you are going to produce typed, unsigned memos from someone who has been dead 20 years, find out if the officer in question actually typed (his widow, in an ABC interview said that her husband did not type), and type them on an old Olivetti typewriter, not in Microsoft Word. Oh, and you might use the characteristic language of the man in question, not verbage that his family and friends don't recognize.

    The major tragedy of this whole fiasco--not just the memorandum forgery fiasco, but the whole Vietnam "thing," is this: it misses the whole point of the election. We don't have to ask about the approach of GW Bush to facing the belly of the beast--we have seen it. We don't have to ask if he will support the troops--he does. The reason Kerry wanted to bring up his hero status (which itself is being investigated by the Navy IG because of multiple, conflicting citations for the same award), is that from the moment Kerry stepped out of uniform until today, he has consistently undermined the US military with his testimonies, his activism, and his senate votes. When people then began to examine his supposed hero status, John Kerry tried to put up a "no fishing" sign, and it did not work. Now the smear merchants of the Democratic party and media have made a laughable, pitiful, and sad attempt to lie Kerry into the White House. I don't think it will work.


    Charles T. Buntin, Major, USAF, Retired
     
  2. Major B

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    More Evidence, From ABC News

    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html

    [ September 10, 2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Major B ]
     
  3. Daisy

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    It's not as though the mainstream press did much to search out the truth concerning the Swiftboat Vets either.

    They're a gullible lot.

    As am I. I fell for it, too. [​IMG]
     
  4. Major B

    Major B
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    Well, the swiftboat guys are ALIVE, and they and their stories can be checked out.

    As far as the interpretation of the flight records, laughter is rising from every flight ops outfit in the USAF.

    One thing I learned in the military, and it has remained the case--there may be a group of creatures on Earth who are dumber, lazier, and more gullible than reporters--but I've never met them.
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

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    Major B :D [​IMG]

    RE: Swiftvets... yep... And, if they are incorrect in their allegations all kerry has to do is release *all* of his records not just the limited sanitized ones he has provided...

    Sign the form...

    Let the reporters go to the records offices and view the originals...
     
  6. Daisy

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    Yes, but my point was that their stories weren't checked out by the mainstream press. It wasn't until some smaller online sites started investigating that the big guys looked into it.

    SSM, "if they are incorrect in their allegations " ???
     
  7. Kiffin

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    Did anyone see Dan Rather the last 2 nights? He looked like a zealot who thought he had found something on Bush. It is amazing that FOX News is accused of being Right wing and I will admit they tilt Right but CBS and Rather look like they are the official apologists for John Kerry the last few weeks. Fox may tilt Right BUT CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC all tilt Left or in some cases seem to be cheerleading for Kerry.
     
  8. Major B

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    Yes, but my point was that their stories weren't checked out by the mainstream press. It wasn't until some smaller online sites started investigating that the big guys looked into it.

    SSM, "if they are incorrect in their allegations " ???
    </font>[/QUOTE]Wait for the Navy IG report on the three different and widely separated (in time) citations for Kerry's medal. THAT is a hot item!
     
  9. SpiritualMadMan

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    It was a rhetorical "IF". I generally believe what the Swiftvets are saying...

    But, I am willing to review any new *real* data presented...

    As I have stated before, many times, I want to see who actually wrote the after action reports and the commendations for the awards kerry recieved...

    This is because they have been called into question by the swiftvets and several other un-aligned groups.

    I want to see the 'supporting' documents...

    And, the longer it takes kerry to sign the form and have the documents available the more strength I am forced to give the Swiftvets version of things...

    Honestly, I get a little irritated when I am thwarted from doing my own research...

    But, it's *very* hard to be objective when you are only allowed one side of a story and limited (and possibly sanitized) conflicting data.
     
  10. church mouse guy

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    Daisy, the Chicago Sun-Times is investigating Kerry's naval records with reference to the Swift Vets. I don't think that Kerry wants the Swift Vets investigated because he is not signing the form to have his records released. Daisy, why won't Kerry sign the form to have his records released?
     
  11. The Galatian

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    The Swifties for Smear have already been called liars by their own boatmates. And their allegations have been refuted by Navy records.

    And most damning of all, Naval records show that some of them told entirely different stories when making their reports to the Navy.

    One even accepted a bronze star for action in combat he now says didn't happen. That's a new low, even for a Bush organization. (His Chief now tells us that he had fallen overboard, and wasn't involved in the combat)

    On the other hand, even Bush's people don't deny that the reports by Bush's commander are true. They are consistent with other records showing that he was removed from flying status for failing to show as ordered for a physical, and another supervisor's documentation that he hadn't been seen for a year.

    And there's still thousands of dollars posted by Alabama veterans for anyone who can show that Bush actually showed up for duty there, as he claims he did.
     
  12. Major B

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    Yes, the 259 are called liars by the 2. Yup.

    And the wing safety officer that says GW spent his drills in his office reading manuals (I saw that sort of thing done many times one guard or reserve weekends at my bases), that retired officer MUST be lying, since his recollections don't fit the scenario.

    Kerry tried to hide his 35 years of undermining the US military by highlighting 5 months of combat duty, he turned his own 527 groups loose on Bush, and when the stuff hit the fan, Kerry got hoisted on his own petard. Then, he wanted to change the rules...
     
  13. AVL1984

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    They were the same way for Clinton, and then in the last election for Gore. I've never thought much of Danny Boy Rather anyway. I mean, how many people who interviewed Saddam needed to find a translator who would fake an accent. He's a loser as is the horse he's backing. :eek:

    AVL1984
     
  14. The Galatian

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    Barbarian notes that even many of the boatmates of the Swifties for Smear call them liars:

    Nope. More than that. And they have Navy records to back them up. Many of the Swifties for Smear claim that there was no shooting when Kerry got one of his citations. But the guy who said that turned out to have fallen overboard, and his own chief contradicted him. And the Navy records say that the boat came back from the fight with bullet holes in it. Oh, and this guy who denies that there was a firefight still accepted a bronze star for being in the firefight. How's that for sleaze?

    One other claims that Kerry was lying about his wound, and he knows it, because he treated the wound. But the Navy kept the records, and someone else did it.

    There's one lie after another like that. And, of course, there's the fact that the group was organized and paid for by a consulting firm doing work for the Bush campaign, and the fact that Bush had campaign staffers working for the group.

    You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe anything those clowns said.

    Problem is, no one else saw him, ever. And his supervisor documented that he hadn't been seen for a year. And the TANG documented that he was absent witout leave when he skipped a physical he was ordered to take.

    And all that money offered by some Alabama veterans for anyone who can prove Bush actually showed up, is still waiting for someone to claim it.

    Actully, that's a lie, too....

    The "evidence",in the form of a photograph of Kerry and Jane Fonda sharing a podium at an antiwar rally turns out to be a fake...
    http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/kerry2.asp

    There's really no limit to how low Rove will go to "get" someone.

    And the rug-chewing rant by Zell Miller about Kerry opposing military systems? Turns out he plagarized an email hoax:
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/weapons.asp

    If you can show me even one case where Kerry (like Bush) had some of his staffers working for a 527, then I'll agree that Kerry is as sleazy as Bush. Got any evidence?
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    Yes, this evidence has already been posted. You didn't condemn it then. You excused it. Why would it be any different now?
     
  16. The Galatian

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    Sorry. You have to actually have some evidence for that. Bush, as you know was caught with two of his campaign staffers working for the Swifties for Smear.

    Who, exactly was working for Kerry and a 527 at the same time?
     
  17. Helen

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  18. Major B

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    From ABC

    According to the interview that Killian's son gave FOX, he raised doubts with the CBS producer on the phone before the story was run, and she blew him off.

    As a high school journalism project, 60 Minutes would get an "F"

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationalpolitics/2002032742_bushguard11.html
     
  19. StraightAndNarrow

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    We still have a document in Bush's file saying he failed to show up for his physical and others saying that neither his Texas commander nor his supposed Alabama one knew where he was for long periods of time. It hasn't been proven conclusively that these latest documents are a forgery but where was Bush? His payroll information also shows that he wasn't paid during that period. Face it, Bush was AWOL.
     
  20. Major B

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    Face it, you don't know what you are talking about!

    So, how much time have you spent either in the Guard or Reserves in the 1970s, or in the active military dealing with them? I dealt with reserves and guard troops for over 20 years. Since I was a young sergeant in the early to mid '70s, I worked weekends, and on "weekend warrior weekend" at our joint active-reserve base, I dealt with reserve stuff constantly. I am going to try to use basic concepts, so you can understand.

    1. AWOL is not AWOL unless someone is charged with it. Bush was not charged, so he was not AWOL. Had they considered him AWOL, they would have charged him. They did not. He was not.

    2. Had he been AWOL for real, he would have been charged. Forget daddy's influence--Texas state government in those days was Democratic, not GOP!

    3. No doubt he had verbal permission to not show up--in those days, the guard and reserve were that loose--it was easily taken care of by a phone call. It is kind of like calling off work. You don't get your drill pay, you don't get your points, ho hum. When he was in AL, he did not have a real job anyway, since his kind of aircraft were not there. The physical, again, was not needed, since he was not on flying status in AL.

    4. He was also ahead on points. He had enough active duty points (because he flew a lot of intercepts, etc. in his earlier service) to get out six months early--he had the points, that is what counted for guard time.

    5. He was honorably discharged. That means that he completed his service. Forget forged memos, forget speculation, forget the ridiculous spectacle of people examining flight logs with a fine tooth comb who wouldn't know a flap from a spoiler. He has a properly executed DD 214 saying he was honorably discharged.
     

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