CCM or Old Hymns....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    ....which will be sung in heaven?

    Revelation 5:9-13, - "And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.' Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

    Here's one of my favorite OTH - Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnZ8bmEOTM
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Mar 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2013
  2. 12strings

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    Jewish music of course...with a shofar!
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Whats CCM....County College of Morris? Thats in Roxbury NJ!:smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Could you sub with a trumpet?
     
  5. nodak

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    To answer the question: neither.

    And those that equate CCM with the "new song" the scripture describes truly miss the point.

    That "new song" will be just what scripture says. We won't be a bragging on OUR works anymore, but worshiping Him and grateful eternally for HIS works.
     
  6. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
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    Music of every age was "contemporary" in its own time. I don't believe ANY earthly music will be in heaven. Why would imperfection be substituted for perfection? Heavenly music will make ALL earthly music seem like guttural noises by comparison.
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    We will sing what is in our hearts and minds...
     
  8. saturneptune

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    Yes, the eternal argument between traditional and contemporary. We are so narrow minded, we do not see that as time passes, the terms interchange themselves. In 2013, one point in time, we have the perspective of the Baptist hymnal (traditional) vs the praise bands and choruses (contemporary).

    I do believe some of the ancient people in our church believe the Baptist hymnal was sung at services in OT and NT times. We have had several Bible studies that make the point, the older people would like the way the original Psalms were sung than they do contemporary music. It closely parallels the narrow minded issue of the King James Bible.

    It would break their hearts to learn that the Chief Musician during David's time did not strike up a round of "How Great Thou Art" or "Amazing Grace."

    Having said all of that, I much prefer the hymns in the Baptist hymnal. Preference has nothing to do with reality.
     
  9. convicted1

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    SN, I heard that you went to a CCM concert a while back(you saw a sign somewhere). When you got there, you was adorned in bell-bottom jeans, tie dyed shirt, sandals,a headband, ponytail, sunglasses down at the tip of your nose, and whistling to the song, "Lookin' out my back door".....you were disappointed, because with your poor eyesight, you mistook it for a CCR concert.
     
  10. Oldtimer

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    First in answer to the OP. Neither.

    Nothing recorded by man, except possibly what God preserved in the scriptures will compare to what to what will be sung in heaven. I know not the form that it will take, but do know that I'm longing to hear it. And have a promise the ears of my glorified body will hear what these old earthly ears never could.

    Reality.....

    You've used the term "narrow-minded" a couple of times, along with "ancient people" in your post. Maybe we need a whole lot more "narrow-minded" "ancient" folks.

    Narrow-minded people who cling to their KJV Bibles, guns, and a copy of the Constitution in their breast pocket. In the viewpoint of many those old faded "traditional" documents are just too outdated for our modern & contemporary times.

    Yes, as time has passed, terms interchange themselves. In society has that change been for the better? Look up some TV programs from the 1950's that featured song. Whether hymns or any other type. Compare to today. Can you truely say the change as been for the better? Video quality, perhaps. What about the rest?

    Yes, as time passed, look at any segement of society, whether "religious" or secular? As more narrow minded people have been brow beaten into being more open to change, has the change been for the better? Does God look down with approval?

    This ancient narrow-minded church member (and I'm sure, many more like myself) is aware enough not to have my heart broken upon learning when certain hymns were written. And is aware enough to know the greatest hymn ever penned by man may come upon the scenes tomorrow or next week.

    Yes, I prefer the "old" hymns, some of which were written in my youth. Just as I prefer the old KJB over most Bibles produced during my lifetime. Yes, I am ancient. Yes, I am narrow-minded.

    I believe abortion is murder.
    I believe in marriage as God defined it. One man, One woman.
    I believe the lost will be cast into the lake of fire.
    I believe that Jesus died on the cross for me.
    I believe that God keeps His promises.

    Is God "traditional" or does He change according to "contemporary" open-minded thinking?
     
  11. saturneptune

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    That is not the point. Traditional hymns, at this point in time, were yesterday's contemporary. The things above you point out that you believe in has nothing to do with what type of music is being sung at the time.

    God does not put inspiration on songs written between 1750 and 1950. The are merely songs.

    Is God traditional, yes he is was your main question. However, that unchanging quality of the Lord is NOT based on a two hundred time span of hymn writing. Contemporary songs have nothing to do with open minded thinking. You are extending music style into theology, and the two are not related.

    Yes, those who think the Baptist hymnal is more Godly than other types are narrow minded and way off the mark. I do not even like the modern music, and I can see that. Yes, I can use the word acient because I am. However, no, we do not need narrow mindedness. If one wants to like hymns like me, that is fine. The contemporary music is not a sign of slipping morals, pulling away from God, or any other such nonsense.
     
  12. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Excellent!!!

    Excellent Post Oldtimer:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I'm right there with ya brother! I may have to come back and post some thoughts of my own when I get home from church! Gotta go hear some Old-Fashioned Bible Preaching for now! Amen!

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Using the preference of contemporary music vs traditional music is a strawman to explain why churches are falling away from the Lord, and nothing could be further from the truth.
     
  14. SaggyWoman

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    I do not believe for a minute that in heaven, we will even care to understand the praise to be contemporary or traditional. What does Abraham sing?
     
  15. righteousdude2

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    Amen....

    ....wedll said brother! :applause:
     
  16. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    OK...It's My Turn....

    Ok ya'll....I've been lurking in the background reading this and other threads about the church music issue and trying to behave myself. After last night in my own church it is time to speak my mind. Last night our youth Pastor actually brought the message in the absence of our Pastor who was away preaching revival services at a sister church in our area. I will say that he brought a good message out of Job that was well received and on target......then came an invitation......the music that was chosen was a CCM number with a moderately heavy "rock" backbeat. It just left me cold....personally. My personal problem with this kind of music is that much of it (instrumentally speaking) is little different from the music I used to enjoy that I got drunk or "high" too before I came to the Lord. I have heard some stuff in churches these days that would cause "flashbacks" for some...myself included. I really am kind of hyper-sensitive to this stuff. I'm not trying to be an "old fogey"...I just want that which honors the Lord and brings Him REAL glory.
    On that note let me say this.....there has ALWAY'S been CONTEMPORARY MUSIC in every generation and culture. There is good and God-honoring contemporary music that has been written and is in use in our day. There are also many OLD and God-honoring songs and hymns that are still in use in our day that....if sung and used in an "old-fashioned" or "traditional" way still have a powerful impact in our day. The issue is NOT the "age" of the music...but rather what it's message is and whether it is Biblical or not. In my opinion...when you try to employ the methods and means (and musical "styles") of THIS CULTURE to try and WIN this culture you err because in the end....in trying to use this methodology you BECOME like this culture....and THAT is compromise that will lead to spiritual death or lukewarmness. I know that many of you here don't believe that but that is the truth that I believe with all my heart. We are supposed to be different, separate, called out, and peculiar and if we are to be "in-step" with our God we will be "out-of-step" with the things and people of this world around us. We spend way too much time trying to "fit in" and make the lost world around us "comfortable" with us and our "religion" so they'll like us. Our music is one of the most powerful parts of our testimony....or it is supposed to be. It is part of our means of "worship" of our God. It does NOT belong to the world...neither should it be particularly "appealing" to them. Just putting "Christianized" lyrics to a piece of worldly music like a rock or country song does NOT make it Christian. OK...I'm done....ya'll can throw all the rocks you wish at that! Give me "OLD-FASHIONED" traditionally sung, Old OR Contemporary hymns and music any day. It is the message of the music...sung in a way that does NOT distract FROM that message that counts. I could say more but I'll stop there. I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time saying this here anyway.:tear:

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  17. 12strings

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    Obviously, I disagree that there is a particular instrument or beat pattern that is sinful, but we've been through that before. I'll just say a few things.

    1. Would you mind sharing the particular song used?

    2. I would really encourage you to find and read John Frame's book: CONTEMPORARY WORSHIP MUSIC: A BIBLICAL DEFENSE. It is very good and balanced, written by one who has a basically traditional music background.

    3. I think you may be slightly misinterpreting the "why" of using Contemoorary styles with folk & rock beats (which needs defining anyway). The primary focus in our worship music is worship, that we would be directed toward God and his Gospel, and give him praise for who he is and what he has done. The goal of selecting musical styles for that is something that is (a) singable, & (b) relatable to the majority of the people in attendance. This definitely includes hymns in the style of the last few hundred years, but not exclusively...other folk-type musics are also easily singable, and support rather than distract from the words. There are CCM songs we won't do because they do not support congregational singing, just as we don't do 1000 year old gregorian chant with 20 notes per word.

    I would say you are right, if the primary goal is to "become" like the culture, you will likely succeed, and much of the CCM industry seems much too focused on fame, money, and praise of musicians.

    4. I would direct you also to Steve' Camp's 107 theses against CCM...http://www.solideogloria.org/ourbeliefs/stevecamps-107-thesis/
    -You will likely agree with him on many points, but will also notice he does not try to say that a certain style or beat is sinful.

    5. Also, I'd be curious as to where this song fits on your spectrum, and why: "10,000 reasons"
    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXDGE_lRI0E
     
    #17 12strings, Mar 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2013
  18. Woodymdt

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    Therein lies the point. It's your personal problem, and your personal problem might not be another persons personal problem. When I sing/play/hear a modern song that praises God, I don't revert, nor am I tempted or do I have flashbacks to another time, another place. For me that's the past, and I don't live in the past, that was another person, another creature. Christ has made me new, and with that I can honor God and sing praises go Him in a multitude of rhythm patterns and with a multitude of musical instruments.
     
  19. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Yes..True...But...

    First of All...12Strings...I'll address your earlier post later on cause I don't have much time right now.

    Woody...I'm just gonna say this...YES...that is MY personal problem...and I'm VERY glad that YOU don't have that problem. God made me new too just like He did you and I, as well, try to not dwell on or "live in the past"...BUT.. I still have that old nature and frankly the devil knows what to irritate me with and my flesh knows what appeals to it. The same is true of you and the battle that goes on within ME is real (same is true of all of us if the truth is known). I think there are some "styles" and genres of music that appeal to the flesh more than the Spirit. I could still listen to Pink Floyd music and there is a part of me that would STILL LIKE IT if I didn't resist. I'm just being realistic and honest. I'm not happy about that. There are a lot of things that I could still be tempted by IF I LET MYSELF DO WHAT MY FLESH LIKES.
    I'm glad you feel the liberty to partake of any kind of music you think you like....but I don't and I believe God has led me differently in a good way. In my heart and mind I have to believe that there is a problem with any kind of music that could even potentially cause that kind of reaction which I described in ANY Child of God...and I know I'm not alone in my convictions and perceptions. I never had that kind of feeling or reaction while listening to or singing songs like "It IS Well With My Soul" or "No One Ever Cared For Me Like Jesus" or "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God",etc. There just is no comparison between songs like these (and their musical style) and much of the modern stuff produced by the CCM "artists" of our day.

    Bro.Greg :saint:
     
  20. quantumfaith

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