CCM question...clarification regarding BB member's classification

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC δοῦλος, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. JonC

    JonC
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    There was another thread...or two...concerning music. While this is not a matter of much concern for me, I do have a question. I asked in a thread, but it remained unanswered. For the record, I prefer traditional hymns...but I do acknowledge that there are some CCM worship songs that are in fact more biblical.

    Anyway, my question is, what are we talking about?

    Are we speaking of this as ungodly music:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsiDukXIeVY

    or this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHn_nY0rr0

    or both?
     
  2. quantumfaith

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    JonC

    Just my two cents. I personally like and appreciate CCM such as Phil Wickham, Chris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, Phillips Craig and Dean and the like. I have never liked heavy metal music of any flavor and I must say I am quite "uncomfortable" with it in the context of CCM.
     
  3. questdriven

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    Well, since we're giving opinions...
    Hard rock is one of my favorite genres, but metal...I'm a lot more selective about metal. It's a little too heavy for me in most cases. I like Disciple's brand of metal. (Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiluhlHipyw Song title is "The One", and the song is about the body of Christ.)
    I like a couple of Demon Hunter's songs, but overall they're not something I go for.

    I am only speaking of personal preferences here. I believe God can use any genre.
     
  4. ShagNappy

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    Back in the day I really liked bands like Slayer. It was shocking and offensive so I cranked it up all the time. When I hear music like that now it just makes my spirit literally hurt. I have tried to listen to Demon Hunter but I just can't. But I can't say that it's the music or just my past with that style of music. But "generic" metal and hard rock doesn't bother me at all past the lyrics of some bands.
     
  5. corndogggy

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    Metal in general is just rock with better musicians that can play harder and faster.
     
  6. questdriven

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    Meh, there is some difference in style and focus. Don't know the ins and outs in order to explain it, though. Maybe if I played guitar and/or knew the deeper theory in guitar playing.
     
  7. JonC

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    While I disagree with some in that I do not believe that music in itself carries moral implications, I apply this to some music but not all. At one time I was a heavy metal fan, and it was not the lyrics but the …for a lack of a better word…hostility and darkness that the music brought. So I am not opposed to the idea that music (without lyrics) can be dark and contrary to the Christian life.

    But I do not see an issue with CCM like my first example (Revelation Song). It is certainly contemporary…but it is more biblical than many of the hymns that many of us love.

    My question is whether or not those opposed to CCM distinguish between music like “Revelation Song” and “Artificial Light.” For me, I see “Revelation Song” as worship music while “Artificial Light” is music intended for the believer who likes that type of music (and I believe that the type - metal - of music is distinctly secular and designed to elicit an “evil” atmosphere….but perhaps this is due to an appreciation of the style on my part as the music evolved).

    Metal was always pushing boundaries…and taking us fans along for the ride. But those boundaries were always how much more evil, anti-culture, and offensive they could become and still sell records (cd’s or digital media for you young guys). But the OP is concerned with whether or not those who are opposed to CCM would reject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsiDukXIeVY as being satanic. If so, why.
     
  8. questdriven

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    Well, I don't think one could argue that Disciple is dark. Their songs tend to be based on Scripture, to the point that their lyrics lists often have Scripture references under the lyrics.

    I would agree that much or most of metal isn't so much about worship as about something Christians who like the genre can enjoy. Most of the hard rock/metal bands I listen to only have a handful of songs that may be described as having distinctly Christian themes.
    I personally find dark themes interesting sometimes, though would not call myself a hardcore fan of such. Music is about expressing all kinds of emotions. (Classical compositions weren't always meant to express good emotions, either.) Eh, but that's just my opinion. I also find some series/comics/books with dark themes interesting, so, I'm probably more lenient about that kind of thing than many here.
     
    #8 questdriven, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  9. JonC

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    I think that we all have opinions. I also like secular music, although I have grown less inclined to some of the music of my past. The true test, however, is Scripture. What fruit does the music style encourage?

    The flesh sets its desire against the Spirit. Things that come to mind are immorality, impurity, sensuality, strife, anger, and dissensions. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Regardless of the lyrics, look at what is produced. Then decide.
     
  10. questdriven

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    I don't listen to music that encourages things I know are wrong.
    As an art form, I feel that music depicting feelings (wherein the fault may lie with the one holding feelings) and/or conflict has a place, just as in visual art. Music, used correctly, is supposed to add to the lyrics.

    And, I don't feel that the music metal produces is inherently wrought with negative emotions. For me, the negative emotions only comes with songs where that's part of the theme.
    Hm...here's a song from Disciple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VELA9mYpA
    Lyrics aside, does the music seem negative to you? To me it doesn't in the least.

    Here's a song about Jesus from another metal band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jbYogKiZcw
    Does the music strike you as negative? Not a rhetorical question, I'm honestly curious.

    Here's some more:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Kf0PDgj8E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFoOn_2XHUg


    I'd say that music interpretation is, to some degree, subjective.
     
    #10 questdriven, Aug 11, 2014
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  11. questdriven

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    For some reason the site isn't letting me edit my post despite the fact that the edit button is still available, so one more addition to the songs I was linking:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ygI7JhEgIA

    Personally, this is one of my all-time favorites. I guess I appreciate how artistically the message is gotten across.
     
  12. JonC

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    Don’t get me wrong. My intent here was to understand exactly what constituted CCM for many who object to the music. I certainly would not view the music that you presented as appropriate for congregational worship…beyond that it is a matter between you and God. I have no problems with much of “Christian rock.” The Demon Hunter song I provided may be another story (I do not see it as being in line with the fruits mentioned in Galatians, but instead closer to the flesh). Not all of their songs are like that.

    That said, I don’t think one can dismiss the idea that the music is basically clinging on to the secular (I’m not saying that it is right or wrong here…just something that shouldn’t be so easily dismissed). Personally, I like much of CCM. Having been a metal fan in the past I do not see “Christian Metal” up to par in regards to the music…but the music itself is something I have chosen to leave behind in my life (for me, it does not encourage those fruits previously mentioned).

    But I am in no way condemning you for your musical taste. I am making observations from my own experiences (I liked things like Danzig, Tool, Anthrax, Zombie, Metallica…mostly older Metallica before they sold out, etc.). But that music is particularly dark and I have grown to believe it has no place in my life as a believer. They certainly convey emotion and are an “art” form, by today’s standard anyway (it seems any media that conveys emotion or idea is considered “art” today). But I cannot reconcile that musical style with the fruit that marks the life of a child of God. I likewise would not go to see a stripper who painted Bible verses across her body to “share the gospel.” But that is me, my walk…seeking to present myself as a living sacrifice. People, even brethren, see things differently. So please feel free to consider my remarks as subjective…much of them are.
     
  13. questdriven

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    S'cool.
    I'm fine with secular stuff or stuff that "looks" secular so long as it doesn't conflict with my beliefs. I do tend to be the more lenient sort in some aspects.
    And for me, music is a way of expressing myself. As a visual artist, I view visual art similarly. It can also be used to tell a story. I tend to view music on a bit more of a personal level, though.

    Sorry if I derailed your thread too much. Not looking for an argument or anything. Music and art are just things I enjoy discussing. Hence why I was active in previous music debate threads. (Trying to stay out of the current one. I have a love/hate relationship with debating. On one hand, I like intelligent discussion. On the other, I dislike conflict.)
     
    #13 questdriven, Aug 11, 2014
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  14. JonC

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    Don’t worry about derailing this thread…it was doomed from the beginning. :smilewinkgrin: Perhaps those opposed to CCM as a whole cannot support their argument beyond the theoretical (they flounder when asked directly to put their "discernment" into practice). So it’s basically been a discussion, and I’ve enjoyed ours.

    My rule of thumb is to evaluate everything in light of the characteristics listed in Galatians 5. Does it speak to the flesh or to the Spirit? Here we have two groups distinctively set before us. Does (you fill in the blank) produce within me a sense of strife, sensuality, or dissension? If so, then it is something that I need to avoid. Is this something more characteristic of love, gentleness, kindness ,etc.? These are the questions I ask because on my own and without relying on Christ I would make the wrong choice.

    There is a problem also, IMHO, that many seem to view culture(s) as amoral. But culture itself carries within it a set of values and a way of looking at the world. This also needs to be considered if one is really going to examine this topic. Perhaps that would be interesting for a future thread….but here we are simply discussing our views.
     

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