Ceremonial vs Moral Laws

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by vooks, May 19, 2015.

  1. vooks

    vooks
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    These words have been flagrantly used here and I feel we should discuss their exact meaning. There is no biblical definition of the same nor usage. You won't find 'moral' nor 'ceremonial' in one sentence with 'law'. So I gather they are concepts existing in scriptures like trinity only given a new name. Or they are simply read into the Word of God to push sectarian agenda.

    Questions
    1. What is a MORAL Law?
    2. What is a CEREMONIAL Law?
    3. What is the biblical criteria for classifying any law as either moral or ceremonial?



    Cc One Baptist, BobRyan
     
  2. BobRyan

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    "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 stated in a contrast between the Commandments of God - (moral law) and the ceremonial example of "circumcision" in that case.

    And the question came up here as well -- interesting how the "Baptist Confession of Faith" addressed that question.

     
  3. vooks

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    BobRyan,
    We are trying to determine what are moral and what are ceremonial laws and here you are declaring the Commandments of God as 'moral'. Next I will ask what are 'commandments' and you will take me in circles as you have always done.

    Could you be unambiguous for once?
     
    #3 vooks, May 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2015
  4. vooks

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    Am still waiting for a kindly brother who will lead me to the moral laws while steering clear of ceremonial. Looks like I will wait forever, or the distinction is sectarian and arbitrary
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    I don't think these distinctions are arbitrary. You are right, they certainly aren't overt or outlined in the Bible.

    I've explained it to students before that what people call moral law has to do with laws that require people to recognize the nature of God and to imitate it. God doesn't lie - OK then, we won't either. He doesn't murder or covet or abandon those He loves. Let's incorporate those standards of holiness into our own existence. God loves justice so we should love it and practice it. These laws point to God's nature as our standard.

    And likewise, ceremonial law - to me - was about God's plan and instructions for His people to follow for restoration's sake. You sin - you sacrifice. You are "unclean" - there is a prescriptive procedure to follow. These laws - while also moral, I suppose - point to man's shortcomings and his inability to be holy as God is holy and the plan for covering that gap.
     
  6. vooks

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    Interesting
    So what do you make of sabbath and sabbath offerings?
    Numbers 28:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
    10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

    Is it for 'restoration sake' or done inorder to 'recognize the nature of God'?


    And what do you make of non-sin/uncleanliness sacrifices?
     
  7. kyredneck

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    Agape is the essence of the moral law which we all will be judged by in the end:

    18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother. Lu 18

    6 who will render to every man according to his works:
    7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: Ro 2

    ...and which all His saints are inclined to, from agape, due to the heart change of the heavenly birth:

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

    8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

    12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7
     
    #7 kyredneck, May 21, 2015
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  8. vooks

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    Am afraid your answer is a tad too cryptic for me. How does one judge the 'agape essence' of a Law? And what is the essence of other non-moral laws?
     
  9. Scarlett O.

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    I think (my opinion) that those offerings in verses 9-10 are the same as the offerings in the rest of the chapter. Daily offerings, Sabbath, monthly, and festivity offerings were all demanded and explained in that chapter.

    Why? Again, just my opinion. In the beginning of that chapter, God said three times that these things were "sweet aromas" to Him. I understand sweet aroma that to mean He accepted His people when they did these things.

    Jesus' death was a "sweet aroma" to God. Ergo these things are a part of a ceremonial restoration.


    You mean like women who had babies and men with discharges and those sacrifices?

    I always thought that those were reminders of our flesh and its frailties, mortality, insufficiencies, and the our flesh's inability to save or redeem. They definitely aren't sinful things and are just a part of the human existence that's messy.

    Maybe God just wanted them to have a constant reminder that the flesh is weak and will fail and that He is more interested in our hearts and minds.

    Maybe someone else has an answer for this one.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

    If that's 'too cryptic' for you then I don't know what else to say.
     
  11. kyredneck

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    ….the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

    by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified… Ro 3:20

    Discern the contrast between these two and you will know the difference between ceremonial and moral law.
     
  12. vooks

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    Yes, He says they are 'sweet aroma', just as is offerings/giving in NT- Philipians 4:18

    Back to your definition of moral laws, 'laws requiring people to realize the nature of God and imitate it'.

    Let's look at sabbath and Passover. Both appear too meet your definition. How?
    1. Both acknowledge God's power/omnipotence - He created everything and then rested,He delivered with a powerful hand.
    2. Both were required of Israel. One can say keeping either is imitating what God did


    Am sorry I did not explain. I meant non-sin and non-uncleanliness sacrifices such as the ones commanded for sabbath..

    I agree with you uncleanliness sacrifices may point to our frailty.
     
  13. vooks

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    If you have discerned between these, why don't you share with us?
    What are 'works of the law'?

    Galatians 3:10-11 (KJV)
    For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith


    This verse defines 'works of the law'. They are EVERYTHING written in the book of the Law
     
    #13 vooks, May 21, 2015
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  14. kyredneck

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    The one comes naturally from the regenerate heart, the other from intent to earn favor.
     
  15. vooks

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    circumcision. Where would you place it?
     
  16. kyredneck

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    29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2

    The circumcision that matters is that which is done without hands.
     
  17. kyredneck

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    The moral law is spiritual, rooted in agape. The ceremonial law is by the letter, and is pregnant with wonderful marvelous types that can make the heart of the believer soar like a hawk.
     
  18. vooks

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    I have scriptures here with me, how would I go about identifying moral from other laws?
     
  19. kyredneck

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    Why would you want to?:

    ..... ye are not under law, but under grace. Ro 6:14

    Is this too complicated for you?:

    8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

    Or is it too simple for you?
     
  20. Robert William

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    I'm enjoying this thread, you are doing a great job.:thumbs:

    I don't think vooks liked Rom 2:28-29, so I will post it again for him.

    Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
     

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