Challenge to the non-calvinists

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ReformedBaptist, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    In this endless debate I issue a challenge to those opposed to Calvinism. Completely refute John Owen's "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ" and you will have my attention.

    That is all. :laugh:
     
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Refute the writings of Jacobus Arminus and you're on :)
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Show me you really have read his writings, and follow what he taught (by that I mean that you agree with him that his teachings were biblical) and I will.
     
  4. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Hey Jacobus, er...I mean...Skandelon..do you agree with this statement?

    “God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
     
  5. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    And how do you propose I do that? Can you provide the same for the Owen's book now?
     
  6. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    I will take your word for it.
     
  7. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isn't that from the Westminster Confession? I doubt I agree with its full intent, but without all the words and concepts defined, its difficult to say.

    By the way, I have read much of Arminus' writings, but don't agree with them all. Neither does he, by the way. He seemed to "develop" or change on some points as do many scholars over time.
     
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    That is from the Westminster. How would you agree with the statement based on the definitions? What do you need defined or concepts explained?
     
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, with out getting too detailed for the sake of time, the words, "direct, dispose, and govern" for starters...
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    Direct would mean to guide, dispose would mean to put down, such a kingdom, and govern would mean to oversee and keep in order.
     
  11. Winman

    Winman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are correct. The scriptures clearly show men can and have done acts that were not according to God's will and that he did not direct.

    Jer 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

    God here said the Israelites built the high places of Tophet to sacrifice their sons and daughters to false gods, and says he never commanded these actions, and that neither did they come into his heart.

    This absolutely shows man can act independently of God.
     

Share This Page

Loading...