Changing a mind that is made up.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ex-nihilo, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. ex-nihilo

    ex-nihilo
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    Good Morning All,

    A curious thought came to mind this morning:

    As anyone can see, I have not historically been a frequent poster but have been a member for a few years and have read many debates, etc.

    My question!

    Has anyone taken a different position on a previously held belief? In other words, have you changed your mind on a particular Christian or Bible topic? I read opposing views on various topics here and observe folks deligently defending their position. Some of those topics include:

    • Once saved always saved
    • The rapture
    • Bible translations/versions
    • Evolution
    So I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone has ever changed their belief on a particular topic that they once defended and what convinced them to change their belief.

    Regards,
    J.
     
  2. tragic_pizza

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    Yup, and on all of the subjects mentioned plus a few. I learned how to think, and to read, and left behind much of the Fundamentalist, Right-Wing political Christianity of my youth.
     
  3. webdog

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    If you changed your mind on all of the subjects mentioned, the so called "right wing" Christianity, would you consider yourself a "liberal" Christian, A.K.A there is no immutable truth, anything is right for each person?

    To answer the OP, I was leaning towards calvinism prior to coming on this board, I used to think any alcohol consumption was sin, and certain musical styles were "worldly".
     
  4. James_Newman

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    So your saying the baptist board quenched the spirit? I mean, other than the calvinism, obviously thats wrong.
     
  5. PJ

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    No. Have you?
     
    #5 PJ, Nov 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2006
  6. ex-nihilo

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    Changing beliefs

    As a matter of fact, yes. Many, many years ago I believed in the pre-Trib rapture.


    J.
     
  7. webdog

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    I don't understand what you mean... :confused:

    The alcohol changed based on factual Scripture study, not the ignorant stance from which I was raised. The realization that guitars (gasp, even electric) and drums, and the sound produced from them was not inherently evil was also a change on how I was raised (moderate SBC with heavy IFB roots and pastor).
     
  8. J. Jump

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    The simple answer to your question is yes I have changed some of my theological views, even as recently as less than a year ago, but it wasn't really on any of the topics that you mentioned.

    Although I would go along with Webdog in that I was almost snared out of the Truth for the mis-guided Calvinism doctrine.
     
  9. tragic_pizza

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    Yes, I would consider myself a Liberal Christian, but I would in no way agree that the definition is as you have described it.

    Not that I would have expected you to define it any differently, of course.
     
  10. J. Jump

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    TP what would your definition of a liberal Christian be?
     
  11. Blammo

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    Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
     
  12. tragic_pizza

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    That's a good question, and I think it depends on the context of the conversation.

    To those who believe as web insists "all Liberals" think, I'd be considered pretty conservative; to people like web, I'm a flaming, hellbound Liberal.

    I would define myself as someone who indeed believes that Jesus is Lord and the only way to the Father; at the same time I do not see screaming about pet sins (always homosexuality and gambling, it seems) as an effective, or Scripturally sanctioned, evangelism method. I do not thnk God is a Republican, and I would not be surprised if God isn't all that enamored with America at all in any case.

    I resist calling God by gender labels whenever possible. One reason is that God has no gender, the other reason is that using "He" and "Father" has skewed my understanding of the Triune God; similarly I resist feminine pronouns because there are people who, because they are or have been involved in paganism or witchcraft, would in my view be confused by feminine pronouns. I do not, however, think people are going to Hell because they call God "She."

    Speaking of Hell and the Rapture and Millenialism and all, I think the jury is out on all of that. Wouldn't in the least surprise me if it's all just like the Fundamentalists say it is, but if it turns out differently that's OK, too.

    I don't think a person has to have the same faith in the Bible, virgin birth, Hell, baptism, communion, the nature of the Trinity, etc. as me to be "saved." I don't think a person has to walk an aisle or say a prescribed prayer to be "saved." I think, in fact, that it is idolatry to "believe in" any of these things; we believe in God, and understand God and God's will though these doctrines, but if our faith is in those doctrines rather than God, we will fall.

    I think God's purposes are served more by being a friend to people than it is by making sure my doctrine is pristine. I would rather have coffee with my transgendered or Wiccan friend than with most Fundamentalists I know; at the same time I am a history and theology junkie who would rather be reading than even hanging out with my friends.

    I think Darfur is a much bigger problem than Wal-Mart giving money to gay people. I think the fact that a million children every year disappear into the sex slavery market is a much bigger problem than gay marriage. Speaking of gay marriage, I don;t think the federal government can give tax breaks and right of survivorship to one couple and not to another; thus there isn't in my mind any defensible reason for the government to allow different-sex marriages if it won't allow same-sex marriages. I do not, however, think the church can or should be forced to follow suit.

    But I digress. I think a fair minimum wage is more important than a border fence. I think that parental responsibility should be the preventive measure in teen pregnancy and abortion. I think that God is less pleased with television evangelism than we'd like to think, and more pleased with folks who love and care for others, but believe differnetly about God, than we'd like to think.
     
  13. dan e.

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    Wow....you sound like you've read Brian Mclaren. Maybe you haven't, but you sure write and explain yourself like he does. Not that I agree with him, because there are MANY issues that I don't agree with him.

    I just thought I was reading "A New Kind of Christian".
     
  14. tragic_pizza

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    I've read "A Generous Orthodoxy," and am planning on getting to "New Kind..." someday.
     
  15. dan e.

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    Obviously I think there are some problems with him, and some of the ideas he espouses. One thing you mentioned was calling God by a specific gender pronoun. There are reasons that the Bible gives God certain names, or descriptions, including the pronouns given to Him (sorry about the Him).

    Nobody in there right mind actually thinks God is a male when they say He, Him, His, etc. Rather, it is a description of God, He is a Father (not biologically), but spiritually. He is to us spiritually what a father was designed to represent to us biologically. God is also given a description of a mother hen gathering her chicks. The point is, Scripture gives us descriptions of God in human language in order for us to know Him, understand Him, etc. What rubs me the wrong way about feminist views is the argument comes from a personal offense, or that the Bible is being sexist, etc. This is a foolish argument because the Bible is giving the descriptions of God that were inspired by God to be given. It has nothing to do with sexism or proclaiming that God is a male, but has to do with how God relates to us....He relates as a Father. He also desires to protect as a mother. Since Scripture calls God by a specific word....we should not feel as if we are in a position to change or reject that. Maybe there are some crazies that would like to think of God the Father as a literal male, but that gives no excuse to change the way that the Bible describes Him for us.
     
  16. tragic_pizza

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    I understand where you're coming from, and insofar as I am unimpressed by cries of sexism against the Bible, agree.

    In my own mind, I had fallen into the error of thinking of the Trinity as "Big Father, little Son and Holy Ghost," because that's what the language communicated to me. God realtes to us, as you have demonstrated, as a loving Parent, and indeed "Father" is the most-used terminology. This much I concede.

    By trying to stay gender-neutral, though, I find that other "Liberal" Christians are more open to conversation, and it makes me think about the words I am using to speak of God. All in all, it's kind of my small attempt to maintian the holiness of God in my own mind and heart while communicating God effectively to others.
     
  17. dan e.

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    I think it also provides a great opportunity to teach nonbelievers about the descriptions the Bible gives to us about God, specifically the male descriptions. I can definitely see how you wouldn't want to present God in the way some have presented Him, however I would take the opportunity to explain why I refer to God as He rather than She. Many forget the "with gentleness and respect" part.
     
  18. dan e.

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    I would also say to keep in mind how the Bible does describe the Trinity. Referring to God as "Father" (Jesus called Him Father), and Jesus was described as the Son of God and the Son of man, (plus the fact that he literally was male), and the Holy Spirit. So, those descriptions are not off.
     
  19. tragic_pizza

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    No, they aren't "off," at all. From a Scriptural standpoint, though, one has to be careful to understand each Person of the Trinity as God - singular, with each Person active in the works of the others. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not, of course, lesser gods, mere agents of the Father, so a careful approach to the theology is what informs my language... at least, I hope so.
     
  20. dispen4ever

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    The only thing that has "changed" for me is my dismay over the variety of interpretations of scripture posted on the BB. I used to be curious about it. Now I'm dismayed. From a small number of varied interpretations to HUGE misinterpretations, it is difficult to comphehend. For example........

    ~One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of us All, and

    ~Salvation by Grace through Faith, the Gift of God,

    will produce an alarming number of interpretations. There can only be one correct interpretation of each.

    :wavey:
     

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