Changing Churches?

Timber, I guess people change churches all the time...for many different reasons. You may try bringing your concerns to the proper person in charge of such ministries to see if there is a way you can help improve these areas. If they are unwilling or unreceptive to your concerns, that in itself is probably the answer that you seek. I would try to find a church that preaches the gospel and meets the needs of you and your family that you feel comfortable with. But, it really doesn't hurt to see if you can help fix what you perceive to be problem areas, you may be part of a solution that God has in mind. On the other hand when God shuts a door he opens the window, perhaps to another church. Best wishes on your decision, please make it prayerfully

 

Timber approach this very, very, very prayerfully. I know that this advice is patently obvious but please start there. Next find out if there is any way to cause your current church to be more evangelical and docturnally sound. (It sounds like they will go visit visitors and have a limited/lame discipleship program) having been where you are now I can tell you it is very traumatic to leave a chruch. The loss of Christian fellowship while you find a new church can have many negative effects on your walk with the Lord. When you are without the support of fellow Christians it is much easier for the Devil to pick on you and many people have fallen out of active service while looking for new church homes.

With all of that said if you feel that you cannot serve the Lord in the way He wants you to where you are by all means leave. The key is you serving Him and what HE wants. Having been exactly where you are now I will be praying that you make the right decision.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Brian ]

 

Timber -

By all means, if you are unhappy at your current church, move on! God may have a plan for you elsewhere or you may need to be "out of the way" for God's plan for your current church. Keep your vision upon the Spirit and go with your heart as it urges you on spiritual matters. There is no shame in this.
I would urge you to leave the current church graciously. You are not leaving the fold, just moving to a different pasture. I hope God's will is done in your quest.

May God bless you

- Clint

 

Timber,

It's not wrong to leave a church but be very careful and think and pray long and hard about it before you do.

When I was younger, I left a great church, thinking that another church was all of the things I believed this church wasn't.

I realized too late that the problem was mine and not the church's and that I would never find a church like that again. Unfortunately, in my youthful zeal, I burned bridges and could not go back.

Have you talked to your pastor about your concerns?

Find some people you trust and talk it out first. Once you leave, you may not be able to go back.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

I agree with Brian on this subject. Pray and make for sure this is what God wants you to do. If you leave and it wasn't God's will for you than God can't bless you until you are in His will. You will not find a church where there isn't something wrong. Also if you leave let people know that you feel that God is wanting you to go to another church, don't dog the church you are leaving.

 

I don't believe you are free to leave your church just because you are unhappy at your present church. Why are you unhappy? Is unScriptural doctrine being taught? Is the church unScriptural in practice? Could God use you as an agent of reform at your present church? Is your giftedness needed there? I'd want to know more details about your current church.

 

Timber,
I know exactly how you feel. i've been battling with "tradition" and such for 3 years now. I may be looking soon also.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
I don't believe you are free to leave your church just because you are unhappy at your present church. Why are you unhappy? Is unScriptural doctrine being taught? Is the church unScriptural in practice? Could God use you as an agent of reform at your present church? Is your giftedness needed there? I'd want to know more details about your current church.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly right Tom. This is one big problem in our churches - people join because they "like it" or like the kids programs or some such thing. Joining a church is serious business; so should be leaving a church. Church membership involves covenanting with the Body and with Christ. It should not be easily broken.

See When Should I Leave a Church? by John MacArthur.

 

Did anyone posting here read Timber's post? This church has a pastoral problem, not one Timber can correct. If there is no soulwinning program, discipling program or members being added through salvation there is a problem in the pulpit. A definite lack of spiritual leadership! Perhaps it is time to find a church that has some life.

Ernie

 

Ernie Brazee said:

If there is no soulwinning program, discipling program or members being added through salvation there is a problem in the pulpit.

There is no "soulwinning program" mandated for the Church in the Scriptures, though we see the early Christians obeying Jesus and winning souls.

There is no "discipling program" mandated for the Church in the Scriptures, though we see the early Christians obeying Jesus and making disciples.

The early Church had members saved and added daily without any apparent need for such "programs" on the budget.

If it is simply that the local assembly does not have organized programs of this kind, then the church is not in sin and this is insufficient reason to leave it. The purpose of the Church is to equip the saints with the tools they need for evangelism and discipleship.

So what's stopping Timber from going out soulwinning or doing discipleship?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:
Ernie Brazee said:

If there is no soulwinning program, discipling program or members being added through salvation there is a problem in the pulpit.

There is no "soulwinning program" mandated for the Church in the Scriptures, though we see the early Christians obeying Jesus and winning souls.

There is no "discipling program" mandated for the Church in the Scriptures, though we see the early Christians obeying Jesus and making disciples.

The early Church had members saved and added daily without any apparent need for such "programs" on the budget.

If it is simply that the local assembly does not have organized programs of this kind, then the church is not in sin and this is insufficient reason to leave it. The purpose of the Church is to equip the saints with the tools they need for evangelism and discipleship.

So what's stopping Timber from going out soulwinning or doing discipleship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how I feel about that, Ransom.

On the one hand, I agree with everything you said but, on the other, it seems like a church that isn't involved in "soul winning" and isn't involved in it's community has some deeper issues to deal with.

I believe that it is Biblical to be out in our communities preaching, feeding the homeless, taking care of widows and the homeless, and being involved in the policies that shape our society.

I believe that the Bible lays these responsibilities on the church, if only in principle and not in fact.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
Did anyone posting here read Timber's post? This church has a pastoral problem, not one Timber can correct. If there is no soulwinning program, discipling program or members being added through salvation there is a problem in the pulpit. A definite lack of spiritual leadership! Perhaps it is time to find a church that has some life.

Ernie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there is no one at visitation, as Timber said, how is that the pastor's fault? Sounds like a membership problem to me.
Why are we so "program" crazy in churches? The early church had no programs, no PowerPoint presentation of the sermons, no visitation teams. Yet the Lord added (see Acts 2:47, et.al.). To simply assume every problem is the pastor's fault (another thing we're crazy about doing in the modern church) is just too simplistic and too much of a knee-jerk reaction.

 

What is the purpose of the pastor? Is he just to preach a sermon on Sunday morning then log on to the internet the rest of the week? No, he is to lead by example, motivate those under him to serve. How does he accomplish this? Prayer, preaching, exhorting, & rebuking sin.

2Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Why would one want to go out win someone and bring them to a cold dead church?

If a church dies it is because there is no fire in the pulpit? If the man who God puts there does not stay before the Lord continually the work will fail. The pastor has the awesome responsibility of the spiritual health of the church. It is his prayer life, bible study and preaching that determines the spiritual growth of the church. He must prayerfully select those on the staff that can assist.

Too many pastors aren't taking their calling serious enough and thus a church such as Timbers. If the people aren't active the pastor must prayerfully seek the reason. There are going to be some that can't be motivated as they are probably professors and not possessors, however if most don't get involved in the work there is a leadership problem.

In thirteen years of leadership training and counseling almost every morale problem, and discipline problem falls back on lack of or poor leadership. This is why we have leaders.

Lead or get out of the way

Ernie

 

Smoke_Eater said:

On the one hand, I agree with everything you said but, on the other, it seems like a church that isn't involved in "soul winning" and isn't involved in it's community has some deeper issues to deal with.

True enough. And I would agree that one of the responsibilities of the Church is to stress to the members the importance of evangelism and community involvement.

My point, however, is that "soul winning" or "discipleship" or "community involvement" don't need to be line items on the yearly budget or official, church-sanctioned events in order for the church to be an effective, evangelistic church. One cannot measure whether an assembly is a "good" or "bad" one, based on whether they go door-to-door weekly. I would rather judge the quality of the assembly by how well the overseers equip the saints to do that on their own.

That being said, I'll add that my own church does have, in addition to its "internal" programs, a homeless ministry, frequent outreach events, a small army of foreign ministries, and a close association with a group that does street preaching every Friday night. So I'm not expressing my opinion from the point of view of "that's the way my church does it.

 

Timber; You may want to give this matter a lot of prayer. It may be that God would have you move on. Or it may be that you need to stay and encourage others in the body to witness and reach out to the community.
I had a similar experiance, now in retrospect I wish I would stayed. At least long enough to let God work on the matter.
once we burn a bridge it's gone. I just pray that things work out I know how tuff problems like this can be.

 

Ernie,
My goodness, you have all but called for Timber's pastor to be shot. How do you know he's caused the church to be cold and dead? How do you know the church is cold and dead? How can you make a blanket statement that problems are always due to this or that? Unbelievable.
I think you need to take a look at the link Chris posted.

[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

Well, let's start wit Tmber's original post. From what he stated it sounds like there is little life there. As to calling for anyone to be shot you need to reread my post, no shooting mentioned or was any particular pastor mentioned.

Also I said "almost" not all. Maybe you need to take a reding comprehension course before you start ripping apart posts and trying to change the meaning of the post!

Ernie

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Is it wrong to change to another church in the area? There is nothing in scripture that says it is wrong to change churches. I am thinking about changing my church because soul winning is not emphasized and there is not a good discipleship progam. There is virtually no one at visitation and most new people are from other churches, not people who have been saved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ernie,
My goodness, you have all but called for Timber's pastor to be shot. How do you know he's caused the church to be cold and dead? How do you know the church is cold and dead? How can you make a blanket statement that problems are always due to this or that? Unbelievable.
I think you need to take a look at the link Chris posted.
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]

posted December 11, 2001 03:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ernie, since your replies are inapposite, since you have resorted to puerile inferences, and since you refuse to answer direct questions, this is pretty much futile. This thread is all yours.

Timber, you have my prayers. May you act in accordance with Scripture.

 

Timber, I agree with Brian. I have just recently left my church of 20 years, but not at the drop of a hat. My wife and I talked with the pastor and deacon about the problem. After 3 months of no action and constant prayer, the Lord lead us to seek another church to serve in. What ever you do, DON'T treat this matter lightly.