Charismatic Movement

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by DiscipleOfIAm, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. DiscipleOfIAm

    DiscipleOfIAm
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    I am new here, but not new to being a Christian.

    What are some good versus / rebuttles when debating a charismatic or pentecostal?

    I have encountered some charismatics who twist and turn the Scriptures to make them fit what point is trying to be made. Other times, I have nothing to rebuttle or at least nothing comes to mind.

    The main ones seem to be: tongues and interpretations, eternal security, the usual pentecostal doctrines.

    Thanks all and God Bless!
     
  2. El_Guero

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    Welcome to the Board!

    Do not waste your time?

    They are (most likely) Christian. And if they can affirm the faith, the differences are not worth it?

    That's my answer today, it may change tomorrow . . .

    Wayne

     
  3. Squire Robertsson

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    For me, it boils down to having a back cover on my Bible.
     
  4. av1611jim

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    Coming fromthat side of the street, I can tellyou that it is NOT a waste of time. The reason I say this is because they (usually) do not understand God's grace.
    So, you might begin with directing them/he/she to Titus 3:3-7. Then you might take them to 1 Cor. 14:9-17. Then you might ask them to show you the Scriptural precedence for 'slaying in the Spirit'.
    Then show them these two places;
    1 Cor. 1:22 and Ex. 31:13. This will prove that "signs" are not for Gentiles. Tongues were a sign for unbelieving Jews, not for Gentiles.
    And MOST of all you might show them 1 John 5:13.

    These and many others will show you the doctrines of Grace, eternal security and finally the proper place for tongues.
     
  5. John of Japan

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    You nailed it, Squire! :thumbsup: :applause:
     
  6. DiscipleOfIAm

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    I, too, believe it is not a waste of time. My wife came from the AoG churches and I am thankful for that. I know that was not a waste of time.

    I also agree with one other poster that these are not (usually in their normal way) things that will send one to Hell. Although, I am sure there are plenty of examples out there where these practices have been abusive, used for additional false teachings, etc.

    Thanks for the responses!
     
  7. Pete

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    DiscipleOfIAm, the debates have raged thick and fast on the BB, so if search for "tongues" or "slain in the spirit" or any other related topic you'll find a mountain of material.

    Oh, and welcome to BB :) :wavey:
     
  8. Soulman

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  9. Pipedude

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    Also remember that a case can be made for anything that one chooses to believe. If someone who disagrees with you doesn't want to learn better, there are no verses or rebuttals that carry any weight.

    Did you ever hear about the man who thought that the world rested on the back of a giant turtle? And that turtle rested on the back of another giant turtle? When someone pointed out the unarguable fact that there had to be a stopping point somewhere, his reply was simply "Nope, it's turtles all the way down."

    Similarly: once you learn the truth, no arguments avail to shake you from it. Proof? Read a few hundred debates on the Baptist Board. :BangHead:
     
  10. DiscipleOfIAm

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    Good point!
     
  11. EdSutton

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    I'll 'third' that sentiment, since JohnofJapan has already seconded it!

    Several years ago, I heard on a tape, and don't even know the source, this warning:

    "Beware the 'New Revelationism', whereby every man becomes his own little god!"

    Well said, and I fully agree!

    Ed
     
  12. Bartimaeus

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    I had a friend that started out as a Baptist after he was saved and then through the years, divorce, life problems and just plain depression converted to be a charismatic. He wouldn't listen to any scriptural statements, comments or logic, he just liked the hype. He finally ended up in the "Nice Church" in Merrillville, In. (Full blown charismatic, faith healing the whole ball of wax) He left for church early one Sunday morning to have a coffee and sweet roll in the foyer coffee shop and had the "big one" right there in front of everybody. Died in the foyer, all kinds of faith healers around, all kinds of "name it, claim it" characters and do you know what they did? They called the Methodists. The Methodists came in an ambulance to try to help and it was too late. What a hoot! The benny hinn crowd called the Methodists. My friend died believing that mess and did it do him any good? A big fat NO! Seems like somebody could have slapped his forehead and raised him. Seems like somebody could have raised thier hands and spoke in tongues and thrown a prayer cloth down on his face and he could have gotten right up there and walked up on the stage to proclaim the grace of God. I know I'm just a little sarcastic, but the event is the absolute truth. His name was Paul Calais and now he knows the real truth.

    (Ha! I know some of you will probably say thats what happens to those java drinkers early in the morning, but I tell you right now, I ain't gonna listen)

    Thanks Bartimaeus/Ky/Look Away!
     
    #12 Bartimaeus, Oct 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2006
  13. Pipedude

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    Proves two things:

    (1) They ain't got it
    (2) They know they ain't got it.

    Amen!
     
  14. meandmykjv

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    Of course it is worth it. Was it not worth it to paul when he corrected the corithian church? or how about the church of galatians.

    it is worth it very much, if you have a true love and concern for them in your heart for them.

    I spent the first 10 yrs in my faith in the charasmtic church I am thankful to the batist brother who shared with me the things that were going in in my church that were wrong, and he taught me how to study my bible, and encouraged me to use a KJV bible, and the relationship with the Lord now compared to when I was in error is tremendouse. I grew more in the faith in 2 yrs getting out of error then ten years of being in it. so yes.. IT IS WORTH IT...
     
  15. meandmykjv

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    Being someone who use to be a charasmatic, I think one of the first things to try to get them to see is that tongues are foriegn laugages. Share with them how we are to let scripture interpret scripture, many do not know the basics of how to study your bible. If you let scripture interpret scripture you dont come up with babble. You dont see it in Acts 2 for example. Another thing they will say is about a private prayer laugage, they will use these two verses for it.

    1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

    1Co 13:1 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

    with 1 Co 13:1 what you need to do is point out what are angels to do, they are messengers and in every case in the bible, we see that they delievered a message in the laugage of the person they spoke too. So it is not a private prayer laugage to build up themselves.

    with verse Rom 8:28 they will mention groanings, but they miss that part that says which CANNOT be uttered

    Keep reminding them to let scripture interpret scripture.

    Also you could point out

    1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

    And remind them of the day of pentacost when every lost Jew heard in his own tongue, the message of salvation.

    Then one important thing to mention too is how the gifts are to edify the Body, we never see in scripture where they are for personal edification.

    And with all reproving we should do it with a heart of love and concern for the person, a heart like Paul had when correcting the church of Corith.

    :godisgood: Blessings, Colleen
     
  16. meandmykjv

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    >>>>I had a friend that started out as a Baptist after he was saved and then through the years, divorce, life problems and just plain depression converted to be a charismatic. <<<<<

    This happens way to often and I believe it is because many Baptist Churches are not prepareing the saints for battle. Also, many are not teaching the congregations about the different false doctrine of devils, that are being taught out there. They dont want to speak agaist other Christians and in turn don't warn what to watch out for
    .
    Another reason is we have many dead Baptist churches, where to show emotion of any kind, they get afraid the congregation will go charasmatic on them. LOL
    Also, alot of baptist churches dont teach or speak much about the Holy Ghost, because they dont want to look like charasmatics. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water because of them. Lets teach it the right way. GRACE!
    Grace is not just for the moment of salvation but it is by grace I am able to overcome my flesh, and handle Persecution,afflictions, infirmities ect... It is by his grace we are able to walk righteousness.

    Many Baptist do not like to talk about being filled with the Spirit either. That they think sounds to charasmatic, well just because they have dirtied the meaning doesn't mean it is not a bibical doctrine.

    Anyways, the reason I believe that many end up leaveing a Baptist church to headd over to a Charasmatic one is because, they are not being taught well in the Baptist church they were in. That or they might be a babe, or they might just be just lost and thier who being born again moment might of just been a emotional thing.

    (2Ti 3:11 KJV) Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

    (2Ti 3:12 KJV) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    (2Ti 3:13 KJV) But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    (2Ti 3:14 KJV) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

    (2Ti 3:15 KJV) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    (2Ti 3:16 KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    (2Ti 3:17 KJV) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    :godisgood: ALL THE TIME!!!!! Blessings, Colleen
     
  17. Trotter

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    Welcome to the BB, Colleen. Tennessee, huh? Same here... Cleveland, world HQ of the Church of God and the Church of God of Prophecy. Lots of charismatics around here.

    I have found that most charismatics know little of anything else besides what they hear in church. They don't really know the Scriptures, and haven't been taught how to study. You'll find a few "hardcore" that know their proof verses inside out (sine that's how they have to turn 'em so they say what they want). These few will engage you tooth-and-nail... but just show 'em the Word.

    The problem with proof verses is the context. When their verses are placed within their original context, the whole arguement crumbles.
     
  18. Samuel Owen

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    Another person, and I confronted some Jesus Only Pentecostal's once for 3 pages of posts. We got nowhere with them, in spite of sound scripture based posts. These folks Bible is their preacher, and what he says goes regardless. All we ended up with were constant rebuttals accusing us of being led by Satan, to being Satan himself. Its not worth the frustration, to say nothing of the wear on your temperament.

    My wife's family were also holiness, and I could never discuss the scriptures with them. Their response was you have to be in the Spirit, or you just cant understand the Bible. No contested here either. :)
     
  19. Terry_Herrington

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    If you ended up in a KJV only church, you just traded one error for another!
     
  20. John of Japan

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    Oh, come now, the KJVO position, even up to say #4 in the list on the Bible Version/Translation thread, isn't nearly as bad as the big load of Charismatic errors: tongues, "divine healing," the health and wealth "gospel," the "manifest sons of God" theology, etc., etc. :tonofbricks:
     

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