Chastened at the JSOC?

That's found in the same passage where the lion lies down with the lamb.

 

Please read your Bible.
The people described in 2Peter 2 are unsaved. They are unsaved false prophets. How do you connect those people to either the JSOC or the Millennial Kingdom? Keep things in context.
Your logic is about as good as referring the text of John 14:1-6 to your doctrine of ME. Are the disciples whom Christ was saying that he was preparing a mansion for in Heaven going to face the heavy hand of chastening in the ME. Are they in the same class as the unsaved false prophets of 2Pet.2? Your logic escapes me? How can those doomed to an eternity of Hell; doomed to stand before the Great White Throned Judgement; doomed to be cast in the Lake of Fire, have anything to do with either the JSOC or the Millennial Kingdom??
Please clarify that for me! And keep Scripture in its context!

BTW, learn the definition of a local church.
A church is an assembly of baptized believers who have voluntarily come together in order to keep the ordinances of Christ and carry out the Great Commission.
Our church does not have any unbeliever in it. If there, by chance, is any pretender in our church the Lord knows who he is. He can fool man but he cannot fool God. By default God declares that he is not a member. He is not a member of our local assembly. The Lord knows them that are His. Yes, man sometimes makes mistake. As far as the particular membership of our church, no, I don't believe that anyone is unsaved. I can't speak for others of course. I am simply basing this on the correct definition of a local church.
DHK

 

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;


FORSA'KEN, pp. Deserted; left; abandoned.

You can't forsake the right way, unless you are on the right way.

Num 22:9-13
9 And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee?
10 And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying,
11 Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out.
12 And God said unto Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them; thou shalt not curse the people: for they are blessed.
13 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and said unto the princes of Balak, Get you into your land: for the LORD refuseth to give me leave to go with you.

Balaam was a prophet, he spoke with God. He forsook the right way for gain. How do you equate this with being an unbeliever?

 

That is all wonderful -- until you get to the part where you "make stuff up"

Which is this part you added

The "division" you insert between the "Kingdom" of God at the 2nd coming and "being saved" - does not exist in scripture.

Thank God.

Ok now it is clear. You have parts of scripture that "dont fit OSAS" so you then "imagine access to the Kingdom of heaven based on WORKS" that way you can still have OSAS regardless of the Matt 7 fruit - in contradiction to the word of Christ.

It is all starting to make sense now. This is a tool you haven invented to spare OSAS from scripture.

Ok - well that is an interesting way to eisegete the text just to try and spare OSAS.

But if you were to simply accept the Bible "INSTEAD" - you would see that Christ's purpose is to SAVE the lost and WELCOME them into HIS kingdom. He has no "OTHER PLACE" as King of the entire universe to put the saved - but IN His Kingdom.

In Christ,

Bob

 

However I have to admit - at least your suggestion tries to solve the OSAS problem - even if it has to make stuff up to do it. I can't fault you for recognizing the problem and trying to find a solution Hope of Glory.

 

But there is a clear division in scripture between the millennium and eternity. It is not a stretch to say that when Jesus is speaking of the kingdom, that He is speaking of the literal earthly millennial kingdom. It would even make sense.

 

You can forsake the gospel message without receiving Christ. You can reject it--depart from it--forsake it completely. They never had accepted it in the first place, and neither had Balaam. Balaam, like Pharaoh, was used of God. Many unsaved individuals in the Bible were. God gave Nebuchadnezzar dreams to be interpreted by Daniel. God warned both Pharaoh and the King of Gerar in dreams not to touch Sarah, Abraham's wife. All of these were unsaved. It was not unusual for God, at certain times in history to speak or use an unsaved individual for his purposes. Read Rom.9. It His sovereignty that prevails--not your will. (And I am not Calvinst).
Using Balaam as an example is a poor excuse. Do a study on him.
The way of Balaam; the error of Balaam, the sin of Balaam; the end of Balaam--he died the death of the wicked, not the death of the righteous as he desired. He was an unsaved seer of the land. 2Pet.2, apart from 3 verses that speak of Lot speak of unsaved false prophets.
DHK

 

Although I find myself listed above, it will be necessary for you to post where I have slandered you or called you unsaved.

I do not agree with your interpretation of some scripture -- that is not an unusual occurence on boards. I have determined I do not wish to learn more about your interpretation. I do not see where that equates to being unsaved.

 

An unsaved seer of the land, that spoke to God and God spoke back to. God even 'chastened' him with his own ass.

Perhaps you could compare the sins of Balaam to the sins of David and then explain to me why David is saved and Balaam isn't?

 

You slander us by purposefully associating what we believe with Catholic purgatory even though the two are not the same, and it has been shown to you all time and time again that they are not the same thing.

It's just like everything else. We can show you Scripture until we are blue in the face, but your minds are already made up about what Scripture says and what it doesn't say. And it's the same with this Catholic purgatory nonsense. Your mind is already made up that we believe in Catholic purgatory and so anything that we say to show you that, that is in fact NOT the case you still put us in that group. That is slander.

I did not include you in this group as I can't remember a time that you have called anyone unsaved. I said that others that believe like you do have called us unsaved.

That's fine. If you don't want to learn then don't ask questions.

It doesn't.

 

The problem is that the millennial kingdom of wickedness and lost people - is not in the Bible.
A millennium where the saints are not with Christ -- is not in the Bible.
A millennium where there are dead saints -- is not in the Bible

When the KINGDOM of God is setup it STARTs with the resurrection of the "Righteous" the "DEAD in Christ" called the "FIRST resurrection" when John sees it in Rev 20 describing it in context with Rev 19 - the 2nd coming.

When Paul describes that same event he points to the fact that at the event "The DEAD in Christ rise first" and that we who are alive and remain are caught up together with them in the air.

Matt 24 shows this exact SAME sequence. So you have Paul, John and Matt (quoting Christ) ALL in agreement on this sequence.

Dan 7 describes it this way --

Dan 7
13 ""I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the [b]clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days[/b] And was presented before Him.
14 ""And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominionwhich will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

...

26 "But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever.
27 "Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'

 

Then your guest preacher was doing the very thing you and others are doing here. Misquoting the Word of God. The unprofitable servant was not saved as you would say.

 

Peter tells us that the entire NT is focused on the singular event of the benefits of Christ's appearing.

1Pet 1[/b]
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. [/quote]


Matthew shows us how Christ lays out the timeline - perfectly to that singular event that the entire NT church focused on.

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end


John Describes that central focus of the entire NT church in great detail in Rev 19-20 telling us that the "FIRST resurrection is the resurrection of the saints - the dead in Christ - the "Holy and Blessed" over whom the second death has no power.

Paul describes the central focus of the entire NT church in 1Thess 4 - telling the church to "Comfort one another with these words" as all the church is looking for that day when we will be rapture up to heaven - to the place "Christ has prepared for us" when the "DEAD in Christ" will be raised and all will finally be united and WITH Christ for ever. Reigning with Him in that place WHERE He has gone to prepare a place for us. His Father's house!

None of them describe a "Separated group of saints" in heaven while Christ rules a wicked and rebellious earth for 1000 years below.

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28
2. Second Advent of Jesus event (1Thess 4, Rev 19, Matthew 24:29-30)
2.A The FIRST resurrection (Rev 20) event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5
of the blessed and holy at Christ's appearing in Rev 19 –
Is the same as the resurrection at Christ's return in 1Thess 4.
2.B. Saints raptured to heaven as promised in John 14 (1 Thess 4)
3. literal millennium spent in heaven with Christ (Rev 20)
4. Second Resurrection (Rev 20)
5. Lake of Fire destruction of the wicked (Rev 20)
6. new heaven & new earth (Rev 21)

In this view the First Resurrection John sees (Rev 20) which is at Christ's Rev 19 appearing is the SAME resurrection that Paul describes at Christ's appearing in 1Thess 4. The resurrection of the righteous.

In this view the sequence of Rev 19, 20 and 21 is literal and plain. No gimmicks!


In Christ,

Bob

 

Your allegation is unfounded. Differing opinions openly expressed direct to you do not constitute slander.

The lack of acceptance of your views must be extremely frustrating for you to react thus.

 

If you would correctly study the Word of God, you would see Balaam was not saved because of his sin, because he chose wickedness instead of living as God commanded.

David, was a man after God's own heart. David constantly was repentant and sought God's mercy and forgiveness. Balaam did not.

 

Are we saved or unsaved based on our sin? That's what Bob Ryan believes, is that what you believe also? I believe I am saved based on the blood of Jesus. David was not constantly repentant. There was a good period of time between his adultery and murder of Uriah and his subsequent repentance. Do we have to be constantly repentant of our sins to be saved?

 

Apparently J. Jump did not read the true definition of Purgatory in posts 34 and 35. If he had, he would have seen it is the exact same thing that the Catholics teach, saving a living person suffering for the dead in Purgatory or praying them out of Purgatory.

Other than that, it is still Purgatory that is being taught whether you call it ME, KE, or even if you call it something else, it is a false doctrine given for one purpose... to discredit the promises of our Lord and Savior when His Word declares He is not divided.

 

Except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish.

I guess you don't believe in repentance either, James?

 

Not for earning my own salvation. That sounds vaguely catholic. Do you have to confess to a priest?

 

Your knowledge of Scripture is very limited, I see.

Let me start with the basics,

Jesus said, Except ye also repent, ye shall likewise perish.