Chastening

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ztheberean, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. Ztheberean

    Ztheberean
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    Chastening


    If we don’t allow our Father to discipline us then we are bastards, (KJV) meaning illegitimate believers who are not God’s children (Heb 12:8); IF the Lord is going to receive us as His, we need to endure His chastening (12:7); unto being scourged (12:6); The Lord’s chastening is within His instruction (Jer 31:18-19); Have you been instructed in this? If you are NOT being instructed in this, then you are being instructed by a bastard (teacher) (Heb 12:8) Are you aware of the leavening (or false) doctrine of the Pharisees? (the so-called “Religious leaders”) (Math 16:11-12 & 6);

    IF so, then God has sent you a gentle servant of the Lord who is patiently instructing you in these things, that God might grant repentance so that you could acknowledge this truth (and in the process of time) be recovered from doing the devil’s will (your will, your way, and your work, rather than God’s will, way and work) (2Tim 2:24-26) Is God engrafting these words into you so that your soul can be saved? (Jm 1:21);

    Then God has sent you a minister to impart this spiritual gift (of grace in it’s teaching) so that you can be established in the faith (not your own faith) (Rom 1:11); and you can become a doer of the word without being deceived by just hearing it (Jm 1:22); This is why we need to learn how to come from (our) faith to (Christ’s) faith (Rom 1:18)

    Are you being taught how you can have the faith OF Christ? Then you have asked God to crucify “YOU” with Christ, (and through this process of your crucifixion) it will no longer be “YOU” living (for your own self, and yours) But Christ living in you (and over you, so that you could live unto God for others) (Gal 2:20); AND you will no longer call yourself a “sinner” (saved by grace) because you now understand, and have learned that God has forbidden Christ to be the minister of sin (Gal 2:17);

    Unless we are chastened we cannot be a partaker of His holiness (the holy understanding see Prov 9:10), which is profitable for us (Heb 12:10); This chastening process is NOT meant to be joyous, but rather grievous so that we might yield (or show forth) the peaceable fruits of righteousness, IF we can be exercised by it (12:11); We can only do these things if God permits us (Heb 6:3); And we cannot do this unless we are learning how to discern the difference between what is “good” (God moved) and what is “evil” (self-moved) (Heb 5:14).

    GOD calls “OUR OWN WILL, EVIL” (Jm 4:13 & 16); This is also known as the “DEVIL’S WILL” (Jn 8:44); If you are in your will, you are stuck in Rom 7:18 because your own will (which needs to be crucified by God) is still present within you; And this means you have a self-willed attitude which causes presumption, because you are walking in the lusts of your flesh, which also needs to be crucified, so that you could belong to Christ (2 Pet 2:10, Gal 5:24, Gal 2:20).

    Those that ARE Christ’s have (already) crucified their flesh with it’s lusts and affections.(Gal 5:24)

    The fear of God is to HATE this evil way in all of it’s haughty PRIDE, which says: [1] YOU already have strength; [2] YOU already have understanding; [3] YOU already have sound wisdom; [4] YOU already have wise council (Prov 8:13-14). It’s not about YOU, its about the perfect love of God, which is teaching people to love. Who is hindering you from obedience to this truth, which love rejoices in? (Gal. 5:5-13 & 1Cor. 13:6).


    Are you dull of hearing all of these things? (Heb 5:11); Which things are the strong meat of the word of God (5:12); Which meat is the will of God (Jn 7:17); Without the knowledge of this doctrine we can never do the will of God, ( Jn 7:17); And this form of doctrine needs to be taught unto us (from a servant whom God sends unto us) ; Without which we can never become obedient from our hearts (Rom 6:17)

    Christians minister to those believers who put relationship before fellowship, (because relationships cause conflicts) but true fellowship has believers become united in the word of God. (Acts 2:42 & 46)

    Believers who want to remain ignorant of these spiritual truths, let them remain ignorant, because God is a God of order, However, this is not for salvation (by remaining ignorant of these things) but rather for decency, and order. (1 Cor 14:38 & 40) In Jesus name, Amen.
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    I couldn't get past this part. Where does scripture say that we "allow" God's chastening? We are disciplined by God and it is His decision to do so. He does not ask our permission.

    When we are chastened by God, as His children, it will lead to righteousness.


    Hbr 12:11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
     
  3. donnA

    donnA
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    We don't ask our children's permission, nor need it, to chasten them. Neither does God need our permission either.
     
  4. Ztheberean

    Ztheberean
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    Thank you for allowing me to expound more upon this. There are those who despise His chastening, (Heb 12:5) and those who cannot endure it (Heb 12:7)and those who say that they have been chastised by the Lord and have not ASKED Him to do it have not been chastised, because we have to ASK Him to do it or we weary the Lord (Is 7:12-13) We have not because we ASK not (Jm 1:6).
     
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Yes, because it is unpleasant, even painful.




    You have no choice to endure it if God has chosen to chastise you.
    This verse does not say they "cannot" endure it, but that "if" they endure it, they can have assurance that God is their Father and He is treating them like sons.


    What has this verse to do with "asking" God to chastise us?


    We have not WISDOM because we do not ask for it. This is not speaking of chastisement.

    You have taken your verses totally out of context.
     
  6. donnA

    donnA
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    I am in agreement with Amy
     
  7. annsni

    annsni
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    I have to say, this is quite a twisted view of God. We HAVE to ASK Him to chastise us? Your verse support of Isaiah 7 is very much taken out of context for we read there:

    Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz, "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


    The passage has NOTHING to do with chastening.

    Yes, God will chasten us as a parent would chasten his own child. I will not discipline someone else's child - that's not my responsibility. However, my children know that they are accountable to the Lord and to their father and I, and when it is needed, I will discipline them. But they do not have to come to us to ask us to discipline them - because that would honestly just be twisted. If they had done something wrong and came and confessed it to us, we would show them grace just as God shows us grace. A child does not need to ask for discipline and if they do, then that's a warped family, IMO.
     
  8. David Lamb

    David Lamb
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    Like Amy, I could not get past this part of your post. I looked at the passage you quoted from Hebrews 12. Here are verses 5-11, where I looked in vain for anything to suggest that Almighty God requires our permission before He chastens us - quite the opposite, in fact, for verse 6 tells us that if God loves us, He does chasten us:


    5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. (Hebrews 12:5-11 AV)

     

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