Choice is a reality

Thank God for the easy choices. The choices that make way too much sense. The choices that are like a room full of doors and only one of them opens when I push or knock on it.

I am the child, he is the Father and I seem unable to make the best choices for myself. I always need his help in choosing wisely.

I've been in the wilderness. He has shown me what happens when I think I can always make choices without consulting him or seeking the one who is called: Counsellor.

The wilderness gives me the hebbie jeebies. I don't like that place

The very idea that he is Counsellor tells me that he should be consulted before making critical choices.

Choice is a reality, but with a good Counsellor, wise choices can be made.

Dave.

 

I don't think anyone here is denying that. We believe that choice is a reality. But those choices are always made out of our nature. Man can make any choice that is consistent with his nature. Spiritually speaking, he can make any choice he wants to. But he has to want to. That is why the Bible says "Whosoever will may come." It does not omit the will. Those who "won't" don't come.

 

yes choice is a reality but would you have chosen God if He hadn't drawn you to believe? your post should not read "choice is a reality" but does the Holy Spirit of God woo all people and some will succumb to the wooing and others will not for reasons that are deep seeded in each individual and settled there.
do you believe that all people have the same coaxing from the Holy Spirit then other do? is some peoples sinful lifestyle more of a stumbling block toward salvation? what makes one sinner more apt to be humble and submit to obeying the gospel? is it because of family and friends that they taught you about God? were you raised to believe in God?
and what about those who have never heard the gospel? do you believe God looked into the future and said well they wouldnt of believed the gospel anyway since they are of that tribe that for centurys practiced following idols.

 

But is that what John 6:44 teaches? Christ says that those who are drawn will be raised up in the last day. Clearly, not all who hear the word are raised up in the last day. You have a leak somewhere in the middle of that verse that Christ knows nothing about.

I agree that there is a drawing effect when the word is preached. But clearly, from the words that Christ uses, that is not what he is talking about here.

 

You should probably make sure you are defining understand and hear the same way. Spiritual understanding and spiritual hearing is something that the unregenerate cannot do. That is a lot different than being able to hear and understand the syntax of the verse, or the doctrines involved. Their lack of understanding and hearing is a lack of seeing teh need for it in their own lives. They reject it because they are trusting somethign else.

 

??????

The promise that "I will reaise him up at the last day" is a divine prediction of success of the drawing of the Father. There is no one he draws in the "draw" of v. 44 who is not also raised up at the last day. This verse has no leaks. It is not an attempt. It is an assurance.

 

Whu did you choose that verse????? Why not these???

John 8:43 43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
John 8:47 47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

REad the whole context. It is clear that the Jews heard and understood physically. BUt they rejected it, showing that they had no spiritual understanding.

What??? That is not what it says at all. The verse says

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

The verse most certainly does say that those whom the Father draws will be raised up at the last day and there is no way out. My perception is just fine. All we need to do is read the verse.

The reason I said "drawn" past tense is because I was referring to someone already saved, therefore, already "drawn."

I have been charged with this many times, but every effort to demonstrate it has fallen short.

You are right about what the verse says. That is what I am saying. I am not reading anythign into it at all. What you are missing is what the verse says. It says, "no one can come unless the FAther draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Who is the second "him" ... the one "raised up"?? IN context, it is the one whom the Father draws. Clearly, in the context plainly read, the ones whom the Father draws are the ones who are raised up. There is none drawn who are not raised up.

Mike [/QB][/QUOTE]

 

we discover the immediate reaction of being drawn of the father by the insemination of the fathers seed within the believer.

this "seed" has within it both the law and the spirit of christ. (technically the beholder is already saved at this point because of the seeds very presence within us)

the "seeds" component of the law immediately begins to draw the individual attention towards an attitude of being circumspect of the works of their flesh (unlawfullness). our strong desire is to please God. also the presence of the holy spirit exists and also the advisary, satan is present.
technically we are in heaven. yet we are blind to our surroundings and its occupants because ,..geez were spermatazoa

salvation is a process. it is THE choice of the father whether the new owner stops before being born-again (recognition of spirit within) or proceed to being born-again and reaches full maturity.(child,young man, and father)

the Father chooses who is to fulfill the role of the vessels of wrath and mercy

even though the spirit of Christ might be within the beholder. and its recognition of existence is not agreed upon by the owner. it is the choice of the father whether the owner recognizes this truth. (opens his eyes)

however the timing and method of the father. the owner still is saved whether they recognize this truth or not.

that is the reason that those living under the law are saved in the end (rom 9-11) they are eventually receive their sight. there are no aborted births in Gods family.

heres something imteresting.

my family are strong baptists. I had the ten commandments preached to me everyday for 25 years.with no real conviction or understanding of their meaning. I was saved when I was 25. It was not because the law was written on a wall on a plaque. or even read from a book.

It was because the law became written on my "heart" via the insemination of Gods seed within me was I convicted and slowly received the understanding of their meaning. Now Jesus as christ. that came later after struggling with my carnal mindset to follow the law to please God.
When I discovered i couldnt follow the law correctly.

you see I didnt choose God. He chose me.

 

That's it in a nutshell!! God chose you,you did not choose Him!! As Spurgeon once said, "Can God make me become a Christian? I tell you yes, for herein rests the power of the gospel. It does not ask your consent; but gets it. It does not say, will you have it? But it makes you willing in the day of God's power... The gospel wants not your consent, it gets it. It knocks the enmity out of your heart. You say, I do not want to be saved; Christ says you shall be. He makes our will turn round, and then you cry, Lord save, or I perish!"

 

yes that is an easy choice to pick between life a death, but that is not salvation by picking. it is faith in Christ and that is the type of belief that only God can show us by His word and His drawing, giving us the understanding to enable one to trust in Him.