Choice or Chosen?

In Romans it says that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." God has chosen the "foolishness" of preaching to bring the elect to salvation. The elect will choose Christ and put their faith in Him.

The success of evangelistic efforts is guaranteed because of God's election. Romans 8:28-30. We do not know who God has called, but we go and tell the Good News. It's all about God, not us. He gets the glory and we receive the blessing.

I might add that "success" can be 1 person or 100.

 

Amen, Jeffrey H.

The common attack on those who agree with what the Bible says about election is absurd, as there are few people at all that would say that evangelism is a waste of time. It is a very poor strawman.

 

Evangelism is absurd, just like I said in my above post.

It is absurd that many people believe that a persuasive evangelist is more effective than a bumbling seminary student.

The responsibility to share the Word is ours, clearly commanded in scripture.

Without the Holy Spirit's work to Impart spiritual life to us who were dead in sin, Evangelism would be a waste of time.

As my pastor often says "Get over yourself!" when referring to those who would place any credit for their own salvation, or that of another on themselves.

 

superdave, I think I see what you are saying...but its a little disjointed, so I am not sure.

big question: why is it that so many people misunderstand foreknowledge? (especially in Baptist circles)

 

I am as I said quite new at being a child of God but I would like to learn more of this. I looked up the word foreknowledge and it didn't quite satisfy me. (Knowledge or awareness of something before its existence or occurrence; prescience.) So I looked it up in Strongs..again..( to know beforehand, that is, foresee: - foreknow (ordain), know (before).) So I hope you keep this discussion going for those of us who are still babies but wanting to grow.
Grace and Peace in Our Lord Jesus Christ
JLynne

 

God is God, He knows everything. He knows what I will do, before I do it. He knows who will choose to accept Him and who will not.

But we don't. So preach the gospel to every creature and give them the opportunity to respond.

 

Amen, Debby

 

True..he does.

But when Scripture speaks of foreknowledge it is NOT speaking of God looking into the future and seeing the decisions of men. That is NOT what the word means.

 

Alright, then we have something foreknowledge is not.
Please cut to the chase and tell us what
foreknowledge is. Thank you.

 

It is foreordination.

 

foreknowledge is knowing beforehand.

God exists in the eternal.

God created mankind (actually everything) COMPLETELY in the eternal.

Me2 was created complete by God in the eternal.

God knows me2 in his complete form that God created him to be.

***

Me2 doesnt know this, yet he is discovering what knowledge, and experiences, and powers of God it takes to become complete in his eternal form as God knows him to be and has created him to experience through finite time.

thought by thought, and deed by deed.

someday me2 will complete his course of reconstruction and be eternal as he WAS created to be and to UNDERSTAND himself to be.

God foreknew as in "before finite time".

 

Knowledge in foreknowledge implies a love on the part of at least one of the parties.

Example: Adam knew his wife. Eve didn't conceive just because Adam knew who she was.

 

Those God knew intimately before the foundation of the world, those he also predestined to become more like the example of His perfect Son

(BTW thats from the Superdave Expanded Edition)

 

JGrayhound,

Disjointed, yes, that is usually the way I post. There is so much crazy stuff flying around in this brain, that I manage to lasso a sentance or two and slap them into a post. Plus I'm usually multitasking. I have 6 windows open, 2 email and, 4 browsers. Oh, and my palm desktop.

I agree, you cannot separate foreknowlege and forordination (is that a word?) God knows intimately those whom he has chosen. His own attributes demand that he decreed my salvation.

 

God is an omniscience, means He knows everything from A to Z. He already know who will go to heaven or go to hell before the creation. God already know who will be God's elect before the creation.

God already know who will repent their sins before the creation. God's will, not want all people go to perish, but COME to repentance - 2 Peter 3:9.

God commands us, we must go and preach gospel to every individual over the world- Matt 28:19-20; and Mark 16:15. He desires every person come to repent. Most people do not want to repent toward God, that why most people go to hell - Matt. 7:13-14.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

I agree, Superdave!

Deaf, God knows all because he ordained all. God's elect are His elect because he elects them, not because of any foreseen faith on their part.

Amen to the last paragraph. We must preach the gospel to all men everywhere! (Although, I would say NNE wants to repent...until God's gracious work on their heart.)

 

God gave us a choice. God wants us to be saved. We are all "destined" to be saved but it is free will that stands in the way of that "destiny". If we didn't have free will we would still be in the garden of Eden and this discussion would be pointless.

§hawna

 

1. The choice was given to Adam and Eve.

2. True.

3. Incorrect. People are on the path of destruction unless they get SAVED. That word saved implies they are in need of deliverance.

4. Again, Adam and Eve had free will. When Adam chose to sin, his will became corrupted. All lost people have a will that is toward sin and away from God.

 

Shawna,
I look at it actually in the exact opposite manner, and I would have to respectfully say so does the majority of Scripture.

We are all destined for hell, God in his mercy will save some. God has called some to be conformed to the image of His Son.

God's mercy is sufficient for "all" it is efficient only for those who choose Christ through the impartation of Spiritual life by the Spirit.

God's character and nature is such that he has to be all-knowing, and all-powerful. He cannot set his attributes aside. He cannot act in a way that contradicts his very nature. He follows his own standard perfectly. This is called being self-referential. He cannot not choose if you want to look at it that way.

Do we have free will, yes, in such a way that does not contradict God's sovereignty. To say that God forces us to act in a certain way is wrong also, that is fatalism, to say that we force God to aquiesce to our will is the worst kind of idolatry. The Natural man recieveth not the things of God, No man seeketh after God, No one becomes Christ's without the Father drawing him.

 

There is only one Scriptural answer to this question: The fall was ordained by God before the foundation of the world in order to bring Glory to Himself through the 100% satisfactory Person and Work of His Son Jesus Christ! He is Alpha and Omega; the first and last! He exists outside of what we percieve as a linear timeline, He knows the end from the beginning! Thank You Jesus!