Christ alone!!

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by rufus, Feb 14, 2003.

  1. rufus

    rufus
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    My friends, if any of you shall be saved, it must be by Christ alone. There must be no patchwork; Christ did it all and will not be helped in the matter. Christ will not allow you, as some say, to do what you can, and leave him to make up the rest. What can you do that is not sinful? Christ has done all for us; the work of redemption is all finished. Christ planned it all, and worked out all; and we, therefore, preach a full salvation through Jesus Christ.

    Spurgeon, C. H.

    rufus [​IMG]
     
  2. Harald

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    "We are made righteous only by an act of faith in the work of Jesus Christ."

    "I would have you note that the faith which justified Abram was still an imperfect faith, although it perfectly justified him"

    "So far, then, all is clear, Abram was not justified by works, nor by ceremonies, nor partly by works, and partly by faith, nor by the perfection of his faith-he is counted righteous simply because of his faith in the divine promise."

    "but our being righteous before God is not because of our holiness in life in any degree or respect, but simply because of our faith in the divine promise."

    "Abram had no ceremonial in which to rest; he was righteous through his faith, and righteous only through his faith; and so must you and I be if we are ever to stand as righteous before God at all. Faith in Abram's case was the alone and unsupported cause of his being accounted righteous,"

    "Faith always justifies whenever it exists, and as soon as it is exercised; its result follows immediately, and is not an aftergrowth needing months of delay. The moment a man truly trusts his God he is justified."

    Spurgeon, C H


    The above quotes show that Spurgeon was heretical on justification. Heretics are able to speak things which line up with the word of God, like the quote Rufus gave from Spurgeon. It was piously scriptural. Yet other words Spurgeon uttered were far from scriptural. The above I gave are just a small percentage of what heretical he stated during his ministry. Isa. 8:20, 2John 9-11, 1Tim. 6:3-5.

    What a man believes in his heart and mind he professes with the mouth.

    Harald
     
  3. Frogman

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    Amen!!

    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. rufus

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    Harald said:

    Brother, how can heresy or speaking heresy line up with the word of God????????

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  5. Harald

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    "Heretics are able to speak things which line up with the word of God, like the quote Rufus gave from Spurgeon. It was piously scriptural. YET other words Spurgeon uttered were far from scriptural." (Harald's quote in larger context, emph. added)

    A deceiver does not speak 100 per cent falsehoods, otherwise he would deceive nobody. A heretic deceiver mixes truth with falsehood. I believe Spurgeon did not deceive on purpose, but was a deceived deceiver having his eyes blinded by the Adversary. Just like Luther also, and many other "big names".

    Harald
     
  6. Yelsew

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    Try being saved without your personal belief!
     
  7. Harald

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    The Jews tried to establish their own righteousness and were not submitted to the righteousness of God. If a man tries to be saved by his own personal belief he will miserably fail. Own personal belief cannot justify a man before the holy God. A man's personal trying is nothing but efforts, which the Bible calls WORKS, and works cannot save a man. If works save a man then salvation is not of grace but of debt. If any man be ignorant let him be ignorant still.

    Harald
     
  8. Ray Berrian

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    'Try being saved without your personal faith.'

    I think believing in Jesus and His atonement provided to cover our sins is what we experience as genuine faith. Our faith opens a conduit not only to the refreshment of His imparted grace, but better yet it places us close to the Lord in our hearts and we trustingly believe that He is Ruling very well in His Kingdom above in Heaven.
     
  9. Rev. G

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    1) Spurgeon was an orthodox "Calvinist."

    2) Spurgeon was not a heretic.

    3) Hyper-Calvinism is heresy.

    4) Harald, your hyper-Calvinistic understanding of justification is heretical.

    5) Just for good measure, evangelism is to be practiced by the Church (just as Spurgeon taught and practiced, particuarly as he fought against the heresy of hyper-Calvinism).
     
  10. Doubting Thomas

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    Good word, Ray. We're saved "by grace THROUGH faith". Amen!
     
  11. Lone Pilgrim

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    Men and faith. 2 Thess. 3.2 Wonder where it comes from. I heard there is One that is the Faithful and True. Hmmmmm, must come from HIM. I'd say it comes as a gift, but I know some here who are quite happy to think they earned it. Belief is not mental ascent, but rather trust, reliance upon, etc. Is this an attribute of fallen man? Hmmmmm, KJV John 6.29. God's work within man and a gift? Surely not - hmmmmm? Back to thinkin'bout fishin' nosir, not on Sunday mornin'. Times I feels like'n a ol'hill belly.
     
  12. Harald

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    G (I will not condescend to call you by your carnal title). It may be I am "hyper-Calvinistic" in the sense I do not believe as Calvin did when it comes to justification. I go hyper Calvin back to Paul the apostle who was a man inspired of God. Paul had received his doctrine of justification by revelation of Jesus Christ, and so wrote it down. Paul taught that justification before God was by means of Jesus Christ's faithfulness, Rom. 3:22, Gal. 2:16, Rom. 5:19, Rom. 3:24. Spurgeon ( & Luther and many other deceivers) taught it was by a man's subjective trusting in Christ. Which one gives the preeminence to Christ in the matter of justification? Which one is Christocentric, which one is man-centered, and humanistic?

    Harald
     
  13. rufus

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    Herald said

    Please supply statements to that effect.

    BTW, mixing Spurgeon up with Luther serves a variegated "salad."

    If it is "heretical" to believe that Jesus is the "author and finisher" of faith, then I are ONE, along with a whole hosts of others.

    rufus [​IMG]
     
  14. rufus

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    Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners. It is a very surprising thing—a thing to be marveled at most of all by those who enjoy it. I know that it is to me even to this day the greatest wonder that I ever heard of, that God should ever justify me. I feel myself to be a lump of unworthiness, a mass of corruption, and a heap of sin, apart from His almighty love. I know by a full assurance that I am justified by faith which is in Christ Jesus and treated as if I had been perfectly just and made an heir of God and a joint heir with Christ, and yet by nature I must take my place among the most sinful. I, who am altogether undeserving, am treated as if I had been deserving. I am loved with as much love as if I had always been godly, whereas before I was ungodly. Who can help being astonished at this? Gratitude for such favor stands dressed in robes of wonder.

    Now, while this is very surprising, I want you to notice how available it makes the gospel to you and to me. If God justifies the ungodly, then, dear friend, He can justify you. Is not that the very kind of person that you are? If you are unconverted at this moment, it is a very proper description of you; you have lived without God; you have been the reverse of godly; in one word, you have been and are ungodly. Perhaps you have not even attended a place of worship on Sunday but have lived in disregard of God’s day and house and Word—this proves you to have been ungodly. Sadder still, it may be you have even tried to doubt God’s existence and have gone the length of saying that you did so. You have lived on this fair earth, which is full of the tokens of God’s presence, and all the while you have shut your eyes to the clear evidences of His power and Godhead. You have lived as if there were no God. Indeed, you would have been very pleased if you could have demonstrated to yourself to a certainty that there was no God whatever. Possibly you have lived a great many years in this way, so that you are now pretty well settled in your ways; and yet God is not in any of them. If you were labeled UNGODLY, it would as well describe you as if the sea were to be labeled salt water. Would it not? Possibly you are a person of another sort; you have regularly attended to all the outward forms of religion, and yet you have had no heart in them at all but have been really ungodly. Though meeting with the people of God, you have never met with God for yourself; you have been in the choir, and yet have not praised the Lord with your heart. You have lived without any love to God in your heart or regard to his commands in your life. Well, you are just the kind of man to whom this gospel is sent—this gospel which says that God justifies the ungodly. It is very wonderful, but it is happily available for you. It just suits you. Does it not? How I wish that you would accept it! If you are a sensible man, you will see the remarkable grace of God in providing for such as you are, and you will say to yourself, “Justify the ungodly! Why, then, should not I be justified, and justified at once?”

    Now, observe further, that it must be so—that the salvation of God is for those who do not deserve it and have no preparation for it. It is reasonable that the statement should be put in the Bible; for, dear friend, no others need justifying but those who have no justification of their own. If any of my readers are perfectly righteous, they want no justifying. You feel that you are doing your duty well and almost putting heaven under an obligation to you. What do you want with a Saviour or with mercy? What do you want with justification? You will be tired of my book by this time, for it will have no interest to you.

    If any of you are giving yourselves such proud airs, listen to me for a little while. You will be lost, as sure as you are alive. You righteous men, whose righteousness is all of your own working, are either deceivers or deceived; for the Scripture cannot lie, and it saith plainly, “There is none righteous, no, not one.” In any case I have no gospel to preach to the self–righteous, no, not a word of it. Jesus Christ himself came not to call the righteous, and I am not going to do what He did not do. If I called you, you would not come; and, therefore, I will not call you, under that character. No, I bid you rather look at that righteousness of yours till you see what a delusion it is. It is not half so substantial as a cobweb. Have done with it! Flee from it! Oh, believe that the only persons who can need justification are those who are not in themselves just! They need something to be done for them to make them just before the judgment seat of God. Depend on it, the Lord only does that which is needful. Infinite wisdom never attempts that which is unnecessary. Jesus never undertakes that which is superfluous. To make him just who is just is no work for God—that is a labor for a fool; but to make him just who is unjust—that is work for infinite love and mercy. To justify the ungodly—this is a miracle worthy of God. And for certain it is so.

    Spurgeon, C. H.

    rufus [​IMG]
     
  15. Harald

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    Rufus, as you requested.


    "We say, faith apprehends Jesus Christ. Christian faith is not an inactive quality in the heart. If it is true faith it will surely take Christ for its object. Christ, apprehended by faith and dwelling in the heart, constitutes Christian righteousness, for which God gives eternal life."

    "Here let me say, that these three things, faith, Christ, and imputation of righteousness, are to be joined together. Faith takes hold of Christ. God accounts this faith for righteousness"

    "A Christian is not somebody who has no sin, but somebody against whom God no longer chalks sin, because of his faith in Christ"

    "The true way of becoming a Christian is to be justified by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the works of the Law."

    "Here the question arises by what means are we justified? We answer with Paul, "By faith only in Christ are we pronounced righteous, and not by works."

    So Luther in his Galatians commentary, Gal. 2:16.

    I already gave quotes from Spurgeon in this thread.

    Harald
     
  16. Primitive Baptist

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    "I am a bad Calvinist, for I look to the day when the whole world will be elect." - C. H. Spurgeon

    "Draw thine elect and elect more!" - C. H. Spurgeon

    Spurgeon was a heretic! :eek:
     
  17. Harald

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    Primitive Baptist. Remember justification and imputation etc. was discussed in the thread about receiving? You quoted the KJV in Phil. 3:9, and I would have wanted to say a few things back then, but it did not work out as I wanted. As it kind of relates to Spurgeon and the doctrine of justification touched upon here I now post it in this one thread instead. I think we see things quite the same way.


    "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" (Philippians 3:9, KJV)

    It is interesting to compare the KJV rendering to the underlying Greek text. It differs a bit. The KJV reads in such a way that one would conclude the said righteousness "is" (exists, or, comes) "by faith". The average professor would take this to mean "by faith" here means "an act of faith" Christ-ward. Decisionists would probably use the expression "decision for Christ", the more pious-sounding religionists would use "faith/trust in Christ" to explain the words "by faith". Thus they would unanimously conclude subjective faith has a crucial role in a sinner's justification or "getting right" before God Almighty. But if one would be strictly and dogmatcially fair and faithful to the original wording one would end up with a slightly different rendering:

    9. And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, [even] the one of law, but to the contrary the one by means of faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness of God upon the faith.

    First, there is no definite article before "law", although the KJV has it in such a way as if there were one. The Anglican pedobaptists added a "the" without indicating it with italics, like they usually did when adding something without correspondence in the underlying Greek. Thus Paul does not necessarily mean the Decalogue. Law without the article in Paul's epistles often means legalism or self-initiated obedience in order to gain or maintain favour with God. Secondly, no determiner either in front of the first "faith", nor did the KJV translators italicize this. The proper contextual meaning of pisteôs here is most probably "faithfulness" (of Christ), cp. Rom. 3:22 same construction (subjective genitive) but with the name Jesus. Thirdly, the KJV says "by" in the last clause, making one think the underlying word is a preposition denoting instrumentality or agency like "dia" or pistis (faith) in dative (instrumental) case. Considering how the KJV in the NT uses the English preposition "by" the underlying word could be "dia", "en", instrumental dative of pistis, or "ek" which the KJV quite often unwarrantedly renders as "by", when its proper meaning is rather "from", "out of", "of" etc., denoting source or origin or ground/basis. But none of these occur in this instance but the Greek has the preposition "epi", which properly means "upon", not even near to denoting agency or instrumentality. If the Holy Spirit inspiring Paul had willed to denote agency or instrumentality He could have easily chosen "dia" or instrumental dative. Yea, let God be true, and each man a liar. Fourthly, the KJV unlawfully omits a divinely inspired definite article, "tê" (dative) in front of "faith".

    Thus, taken on the whole this verse by no means teaches "justification by faith alone" or "justification by faith IN Christ". In fact it crushes the heresy of Luther and his "evangelical" followers by teaching justification of Saul of Tarsus (and his target group) by "Christ's faithfulness", which faithfulness He exhibited in the days of His flesh near 2000 years ago. Luther's doctrine, called Sola Fide - "solely by faith", popularly solafidianism or solafideism, is an anti-Biblical and anti-Pauline heresy without backing up from the inspired New Testament, however from many biased translations of the same.
    (end of quote)

    Spurgeon obviously stood were Luther, and a host of other well-known religionists of the past, as well as their present day followers, often called "evangelicals". When it comes to religion the majority is not necessarily the party which is right, but often in the wrong. Even so now there is a remnant according to the election of grace who won't bow the knee to Baal. O to be found in that little flock that Day. Amen.

    Harald
     
  18. Primitive Baptist

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    Amen, Brother.

    "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." (Habakkuk 2:4)

    Here it says that the just will live by HIS faith. Now, if it's a man's subjective act of faith that counts him as righteous before God, it is HIS righteousness.

    "Scratch a Calvinist, and you'll find an Arminian."
     
  19. npetreley

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    I'm genuinely confused now, especially by the last quote "scratch a Calvinist".

    I thought I was following Harald's point, and IMO he makes a good case. It rings true for me especially because it harmonizes with so many other scriptures.

    However, when you quote "the just shall live by HIS faith" are you saying "his faith" or "His faith"? And how does that related to the scratch quote?
     

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