Christ in Daniel 9

And just look at what the leading Baptist pastor of the 1800s declared:

A confession of faith, circa 1890:

How refreshing to see so many early Baptists of basically similar beliefs about the Millennium.

I wonder if Tom Nettle's series on Baptist history will include this:laugh:

 

The following excerpts are from Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin . Please note that all except the London Confession of 1644 do mention a General resurrection and Judgment.

Confessions of English Baptists in England

The following Confessions are from Baptists in England. The earliest and most significant confession of the Baptists in England, the London Confession of 1844 does not mention the resurrection and judgment but does affirm the return and triumph of Jesus Christ. [The reference does not mention the resurrection and judgment, however, the Confession located at
http://www.oldschoolbaptist.org/Articles/1644LondonConfessionOfFaith.htm
does mention the resurrection and judgment.

1. The Midland Association Confession [1655]

Article 16 [page 200].

“That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men, just and unjust shall rise out of their graves, that all may receive according to what they have done in their bodies, be it good or evil.”

2 The Somerset Confession [1656]

Article XL [page 214].

“That there is a day appointed, when the Lord shall raise the unjust as well as the righteous, and judge them all in righteousness, but every man in his own order, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whose punishment will be everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”

3 The Standard Confession [1660]

Article XX [page 231].

“That there shall be [through Christ who was dead but is alive again from the dead] a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the earth, both the just and the unjust, that is, the fleshly bodies of men, sown into the graves of the earth, corruptible, dishonourable, weak, natural, [which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdom of God] shall be raised again, incorruptible, in glory, in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of the Saints [united again to their spirits] which here suffer for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdom, reigning together with Christ.”

Article XXI [page 231].

“That there shall be after the Resurrection from the graves of the earth, An eternal Judgment, at the appearing of Christ and His Kingdom, at which time of judgment which is unalterable, and irrevocable, every man shall receive according to the things done in his body.”

4. The Second London Confession [1677]

Chapter XXXI. Of the State of Man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 293]

“1. The Bodies of Men after Death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls [which neither die nor sleep] having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the Souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into Paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day; besides these two places for Souls separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth none.

2. At the last day such of the Saints as are found alive shall not sleep but shall be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies, and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their Souls again forever.

3. The bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ be raised to dishonour; the bodies of the just by His Spirit unto honour, and be made conformable to His own glorious body.”

Chapter XXXII. Of the Last Judgment [page 294]

“1. God hath appointed a Day wherein He will judge the world in Righteousness, by Jesus Christ; to Whom all power and judgment is given of the Father; in which Day not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, Words, and Deeds, and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil.

2. The end of Gods appointing this Day is for the manifestation of the glory of His Mercy, in the Eternal Salvation of the Elect, and of His Justice in the Eternal damnation of the Reprobate who are wicked and disobedient; for then shall the Righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of Joy, and Glory, with everlasting reward in the presence of the Lord; but the wicked who know not God, and obey not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into Eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.

3. As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a Day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin and for greater consolation of the godly, in their adversity; so will he have that day unknown to Men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour, the Lord will come; and may ever be prepared to say, Come Lord Jesus, Come quickly, Amen.”

5. The Orthodox Creed [1679]

Article XLIX. Of the State of man after Death and of the Resurrection of the Dead [page 333]

“The bodies of men after death return to dust and see corruption; but their souls, or spirits, which neither die nor sleep, having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them; the souls of the righteous then being made perfect in holiness, are received into paradise where they are with Christ, and behold the face of God in light and glory; waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked, are cast into hell; where they remain in torment and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. And besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies, the holy scripture mentions none. At the last day such of the saints as are found alive shall not sleep but be changed; and all the dead shall be raised up with the self same bodies and none other; although with different qualities, which shall be reunited with their souls forever and forever, but the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of Christ, as a severe and just judge, be raised to dishonour; and the bodies of the just and righteous by His Spirit, as He is the head of the catholic Church, unto honour, and be made conformable with His glorious body, and shall enjoy everlasting life; in singing perpetual praises and hallelujahs to God for ever and ever. Amen.”

Article L. Of the last Judgment [page 334]

“And lastly, we believe God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world in righteousness, by Jesus Christ, to Whom all power, and judgment is given of the Father; in which day, not only the Apostate Angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons that have lived upon the Earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ; to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds, and shall receive a just sentence, according to what they have done in their bodies, whether good or evil, when God according to His purpose, will manifest the glory of His mercy, in the salvation of His elect, and of His justice in the eternal damnation of the wicked and disobedient; for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life, and receive the fullness of joy and glory, but the wicked who know not God, nor obey the gospel offered them in Christ, shall be cast into everlasting torments, and punished with everlasting destruction, from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power. Amen.

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?

The 1644 Confession, Paragraph 40:

and Paragraph 52:

 

Oops. You must have inadvertantly failed to include (for the third time!) the very next paragraph in the Standard Confession of 1660, Article XXII:

I understand that things like this are easy to repeatedly overlook and omit.
Gotta love the old Baptist doctine:thumbs:

 

Perhaps you need a remedial course in reading?

 

I understand that things like this are easy to repeatedly overlook and omit.
Gotta love the old Baptist doctine:thumbs:[/QUOTE]

Look Jerome

If you are going to question someone's veracity please have the courtesy to reference your source. Please read again the introduction to my initial post on Baptist Confessions of Faith, that is if you have finished the course in remedial reading.

The reference in the above quote is, to those with discernment, Baptist Confessions of Faith by William L. Lumpkin. Again those who read with discernment should note that I was discussing the General Resurrection and Judgment not the so-called millennial reign.

Now as to the Standard confession the following source

http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/tsc.htm

presents the following:

XX. That there shall be (through Christ who was dead, but is a live again from the dead) a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the Earth, Isa. 26. 19. both the just and the unjust, Acts 24. 15. that is, the fleshy bodies of men, sown into the graves of the earth, corruptable, dishonourable, weak, natural, (which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdome of God) shall be raised again, incorruptable, in glory, in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of the Saints, (united again to their spirits) which here suffer for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdome, raigning together with Christ, 1 Cor. 15. 21, 22, 42, 43, 44, 49.

XXI. That there shall be after the Resurrection from the graves of the Earth, An eternal Judgment, at the appearing of Christ, and his Kingdome, 2 Tim. 4. 1. Heb. 9. 27. at which time of judgment which is unalterable, and irrevocable, every man shall receive according to the things done in his body, 2 Cor. 5. 10.

XXII. That the same Lord Jesus who shewed himself alive after his passion, by many infallible proofs, Acts I. 3. which was taken up from the Disciples, and carried up into Heaven, Luke* 24. 51. Shall so come in like manner as he was seen go into Heaven, Acts. 1. 9, 10.
II. And when Christ who is our life shall appear, we shall also appear with him in glory, Col. 3. 4. For then shall he be King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, Rev. 19. 16. for the Kingdome is his, and he is the Governour among the Nations, Psal. 22. 28. and King over all the earth, Zech. 14. 9. and we shall raign (with him) on the Earth, Rev. 5. 10. the Kingdomes of this World, (which men so mightily strive after here to enjoy) shall become the Kingdomes of our Lord, and his Christ, Rev. 11. 15. for all is yours, ( 0 ye that overcome this world) for ye are Christ's, and Christ is Gods, 1 Cor. 3. 22, 23. For unto the Saints shall be given the Kingdome, and the greatness of the Kingdome, under (mark that) the whole Heaven, Dan. 7. 27. Though (alas) now many men be scarce content that the Saints should have so much as being among them; but when Christ shall appear, then shall be their day, then shall be given unto them power over the Nations, to rule them with a Rod of Iron, Rev. 2. 26, 27. then shall they receive a Crown of life, which no man shall take from them, nor they by any means turned, or overturned from it, for the oppressor shall be broken in pieces, Psal. 72. 4. and their now vain, rejoycings turned into mourning, and bitter Lamentations, as ‘tis written, Job 20. 5, 6, 7. The triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the Hypocrite but for a moment; though his excellency mount up to the Heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds, yet shall he perish for ever, like his own dung; they which have seen him, shall say, where is he?

The comments in Section 22 in no way affect the teaching of a General Resurrection and Judgment taught in Sections 20 and 21!

 

Sigh.
Again I ask where are you coming up with this stuff?
Yes, I am having trouble following which words are yours and which are not.

You wrote:

Whose words are these? You are quoting Lumpkin, is that right?
If so, on what page exactly does he wrongly state that the 1644 Confession did not mention the resurrection and judgment?

Thanks

 

Hi Jerome,

Just wanted to say thanks for that.

The quotes show a continuity of doctine held today from ages past.

God bless.

 

Hi to all.

Another question, I hope this one will be answered.

So it would seem that you do not advocate interpreting Daniel by comparing scripture that I myself would consider to be in relation to this prophecy.

Here is an easy one.

Daniel 9:26 & 27, 11:20-39 (not discounting the rest of the book, only trying to localize my question) have much in common.

In the latter, it is certainly not Messiah who is referred to.

I am aware of what I believe to be the near-fulfillment of Antiochus Epiphanes, and am not looking for a history lesson about Syria and Egypt.

The question is this: the prince of the covenant (most assuredly not the New Covenant, which was established by the blood of Messiah) of 11:22: is Daniel speaking of two separate princes and covenants?

God bless.

 

Keep sighing Jerome, perhaps you will read before you sound off or as they used to say in the USN: Don't let your battleship mouth get ahead of your rowboat "Whatever"!:wavey::wavey::wavey:

 

I find it hard to believe that Lumpkin would deny that that the 1644 Confession mentioned the resurrection.

Again, whose words are these that you posted?

Are these Lumpkin's exact words or are you paraphrasing him or what?

 

Getting back to the purpose of the OP. There can be little doubt that much of dispensational doctrine is based on a faulty interpretation of Daniel's 70th week.:smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

 

As they say: "The proof is in the pudding."

The author of the OP does not seem to want to taste his pudding; but we will humor him and given time I don't see how the taste test of his thesis can be avoided.

For the sake of argument, I am willing to grant the OP its thesis for the time being just to see where it takes us.

OldRegular, have you as yet re-arranged your time-line based on scripture?

 

Don't worry about it a bit. It really needs no response at this time.
Like I said, I am happy to concede your points in Daniel for the time being and interested in your outcome.

The reason of interest is that your outcome could very well be the outcome of the prophecies had all Israel believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah.

There always seems to be at least 2 routes of fulfillment, that which could have been, and that which is, all depending on the choices of man.

Isn't God great!