Christ Is Not A Goat-Herder

Biblical Support

I give biblical support and the wise and learn continue to talk their way out of it.

Jesus came into His own and His own received Him not.

They were His sheep , but they received Him not.

So what will Jesus do to even His own if they disown Him , Jesus said He would disown them.

If you can understand that the Jews are the natural branches His elect and they were cut out for unbelief and God included Gentiles with the believing Jews by faith.

Which faith, the faith God has given to them through the words of Jesus which is Spirit and life, but just like the young rich ruler a Jew an elect of God will be cut out by not receiving Jesus.

The Jews are the elect, but they were cut out for unbelief, and we Gentiles were included with the believing Jews when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed.


This is Christ body, the body is filled with believer not non believers and it is Christ body that was chosen before the foundation of the world.

I can give you scripture, but men always find away to talk themselves out of scripture to believe what they want to. Spend some time studying the scripture over how men understand them. I will not disagree with any scripture including the scripture that is presented here, I will live on every word that comes from the mouth of God not in what men decide to feed me. So if you point me to scripture I will believe them without talking away from what all the other scripture teaches, that is what keeps us from being deceived, by living on every word that comes from the mouth of God. Both scripture are true Jesus will never leave or forsake us but if we disown Him He will disown us. There is no contradiction, both are true. All it takes is faith not leaning on your own understanding.

John 1:11
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

This is not a Peter disown, but a disown and never come back disown

Ephesians 1:
11In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Romans 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Praise be to God

23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Hebrews 3:
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Jude5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[Some early manuscripts Jesus] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

1 Timothy 2:
1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

My faith in every word that comes from the mouth of God is more important than pleasing men and receiving praise from them

 

I am glad your aim is to give biblical support for what you write.

Now, you wrote: "See a goat is a false teacher leading poor sheep into a pit to die." Please could you give some biblical support for that statement.

Your also wrote that until judgment time comes the separation of the goats and sheep they are all sheep. Again, please could you give some biblical support for that statement.

I would like to assure you that I am not trying to talk my way out of anything. I am just asking you to provide scriptural support for the idea that goats are false teachers, and that all are sheep until the judgment.

 

I will say this, David. Even Dr Rogers presented evidence that goats were used by the shepherd to lead the sheep around. But, of course, they were not the Shepherd so it would only be in a general sense.

skypair

 

Dear Rip. :tear: Do you not realize that it is a contradiction to say that God is omniscient and doesn't know "the rest of humanity?"

God the Father is omniscient. He knows everything. It is the God the Son that says, "Behold, I never knew you." And He is telling the truth --- He doesn't know anyone who hasn't come to Him!

Let's try another one, shall we? (I did this with my assistant pastor/nephew last week and I can almost predict your responses, but ...

Is God omnipresent? If so, how is it that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven? God is not only on the throne in 3rd heaven but has His right hand with Him. We don't serve a "pantheistic" God. It is God the Spirit that is omnipresent -- everywhere in everything displaying "the eternal power and Godhead" of God, right? (Rom 1:20)

So basically, the Father's foreknowledge is perfect, complete, inexhaustive. But it is foreknowledge of what the "not omniscient" Son and Spirit will do in the created world and heavens which neither of them foreknow except by what they are given of the Father.

So this theology answers many questions. Here's 2: 1) Is God atemporal/unchanging, temporal/responsive to mankind, or supratemporal/outside of time? (Ans: Spirit, Son, Father)

2) Is God totally sovereign as to His will being done (the Father is -- the Son, whose world this is, is not).

skypair

 

Rather like British shepherds using sheepdogs? I haven't come across that before, but I am sure you are right. But even if some shepherds did use goats to lead the sheep, that doesn't mean that when Jesus talked about goats, He was referring to "sheep-leaders". (I know you were not claiming that it did mean that, by the way ).

Out of interest, which Dr Rogers? I did a Google search for: "Dr Rogers" Christian - and it brought up several possibilities. I expect the one you mean is really well-known in America, and you will wonder why I don't know who you mean. Sorry!

 

Adrian Rogers. Or I think it's spelled Rodgers (could be wrong on this, though).

He's gone to be with the Lord.

 

Try searching: "Dr. Rogers", Baptist

 

Sheep and goats.

I heard that story of the goat leading sheep into a pit from a pastor sermon, it was when I was a kid and from the story I seen goats as false teachers. That is what a false teachers wants to do lead poor sheep into a pit, you all are sheep who have gone astray and Jesus is calling you to Him, just come and He will in no wise cast you out. If you think you are a goat turn to Jesus and He will take the veil off you and the old person will be gone and the new person will come in.

The scripture teaches us that we are to see no one in a worldly point of view, because why we viewed Jesus this way at one time.

We are to see everyone as sheep with potential of salvation, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

It is God who will separate the sheep from the goats. I know I seen what I thought was a goat and he made fun of this Christian all the time. This Christian as what I seen actual living what He believed changed this man.

If there is hope for people like saul who became paul and people like me the chief of sinners then there is hope for this world and for whosoever believes.

1 Timothy 2:
1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

I want you to pay attention to the underline this is who the all paul was speaking about, but men have so misunderstood this scripture. No telling the wise and learned they are wrong, because their pride prevents them for admitting they are wrong.

You can believe in Jesus not one of you can't. If you don't believe it isn't because God doesn't want you to, but you have decided to turn your back on Jesus because of you not because of God who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, but the will of God is only to save believers in His Son.

You can believe do not listen to men who do not understand the scripture, but listen to God because He does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

Tried that, and got references to:

Dr. Jeffrey S. Rogers, Senior Pastor of First Baptist Greenville, South Carolina
Dr. Rex M. Rogers, author, speaker, radio host, and leadership and fundraising consultant
Dr. William Rogers (1751-1824), pastor of the First Baptist Church of Philadelphia
(There were probably others among the 10,600 results).

But by far the majority of hits referred to a Dr Adrian Rogers, so I expect Skypair meant him.

 

The late Dr Adrian Rogers, David. You can still listen to him on www.lwf.org. Click on "Listen" for archived sermons. Let me know what you think. :wavey:

skypair

 

No, but thanks for posting the spelling so I can learn it! :laugh:

Actually, I am very akin to that theology but due to its temporal description of God, the Father, I would have to resist some of its teachings.

skypair

 

Biblical support

Following a crowd doesn't make you His sheep, but He still called them sheep, I still hold on to what God convinced me of in my youth. I have given you scriptural support but I can't open your eyes.

God say's He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, that in plan English right now all men are sheep with a potential of salvation.

Like I said I can't live on little pieces of bread, but every word that comes from the mouth of God. The devil tried to deceive Jesus with little pieces of bread.

God said He will separate the sheep from the goat, right now until Jesus comes back, Jesus was sent here that the world might be saved through Him.

We have good news that God loved the world that He sent His Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life and whosoever not will be condemned. You only have two roads to believe or not to believe and the consequences of the road that you are on.

Remember God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so not one of you God doesn't want to be saved. So believe in Jesus, because the will of God is to save believers.

Matthew 25:1"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left

John 3:17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 12:
47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

1 Timothy 1:15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.

20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

James 5:16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

James 3:1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly

Some spend more time trying to convince men that there is just some people that can't be saved, instead of the message Jesus sent you out with. You cannot just chop up The Holy Bible and just believe what you want to, but believe in every word that comes from God. The devil is doing what he has been doing from the beginning, trying to deceive Jesus with little pieces of bread.

 

Prove to me

Until someone can prove that the pasture was telling me a lie about how they slaughtered sheep back then that way, there is nothing wrong with believing it.

Wikipedia: Judas goat

A Judas goat is a trained goat used at a slaughterhouse and in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.

The phrase has also been used to describe a goat that is used to find feral goats that are targeted for eradication. In many ecosystems goats introduced there mostly by European colonists are a pest or can outcompete endemic endangered species. The Judas goat is outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red and then released. The goat then finds the remaining herds of feral goats, allowing hunters to exterminate them.

 

Very interesting, psa109. :applause:

The "goat" that carried the blood out of the camp following the OT sacrifice of the lamb is also significant. 1) It is the origin of the term "scapegoat" and 2) signified our sins being taken "as far as the east is from the west!"

skypair