Christ is the end of the law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by wopik, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    "End" here does NOT mean TERMINATION. "End" means "outcome", "goal", "purpose".


    "Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful(compassionate), and of tender mercy." - james 5:11.

    Please look at these other translations for james 5:11

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/ParallelBible/


    Thomas Paine. Common Sense. [1776]. Introduction ... Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever ...
     
  2. Jim1999

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    John Murray writes in his commentary on Romans: "Though the word "end" can express purpose, preponderantly, and particularly in Paul, it means termination, denoting a terminal point. " Romans 10:3, page 49. He begs comparisons with Matt 10:22; 24:6, 14...Romans 6:21; I cor 1:8,,and a host of others.

    Not all scholars agree on the definition of "end" in this verse. It is, indeed, the culmination of the Mosaic Law. Christ fulfilled the Law, and we are complete in Christ, and hence, the Law is terminated in Christ.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. DHK

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    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the fulfillment of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (WEB)

    Christ fulfilled the law. That is what the word means. Every prophecy, every type, every picture, every levitical law was fulfilled in Him.

    Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

    Read on and get the context of the verse. What is the righteousness of the law that Moses describes. It is absolute perfection which no man can attain. There is no righteousness with the law. It is impossible to attain. Consider:

    Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    Considering the law (and its works and righteousness), if you do not continue from birth to death doing all that is written in the law without even one failure, then you are cursed. One transgression of the law one time in your life puts you under the curse of the law. Thus Paul quotes Moses saying righteousness from the comes from those that do the law. All of it! All the time!

    However:
    Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law. He paid the purchase price. That is something that you or I cannot do. He did it all for us. Salvation is not doing; it is receiving--receiving the gift of God which Christ provided for us on the cross of Calvary.

    Christ is the end of the law in that he is the fulfillment of the law. We no longer have to keep the ceremonnial laws of Israel and sacrifice lambs and goats. For the blood of bulls and goats could never wash away sin. But Christ, by one sacrifice, has put away our sin forever.
    DHK
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Paul the Apostle writes -

    "Do we then make void the Law of God through our faith?? God forbid!! In fact we further establish the Law of God!" Rom 3:31.

    Far from "terminating God's Law" the faith of the Bible is directed at further "ESTABLISHING" the Law of God.

    James makes it clear that the 10 commandment Law of God IS THE LAW of
    Liberty by which ALL Christians will be judged.

    God James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the Law
    of LIBERTY"


    God James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one
    point, he is GUILTY of ALL.


    James (as well as John and Paul) tell us that the LAW of God is
    what DEFINES sin - and that by breaking that law we DO SIN and that SIN
    requires payment - the Death of Christ - or our OWN death.

    Let's read what the Apostle HIMSELF says about his OWN
    term - "LAW of Liberty" rather than simply speculating - let's actually read
    it from the source.

    The EXAMPLES of the ROYAL LAW given by James is LEVITICUS 19:18 "You shall
    love your neighbor as yourself I AM the LORD "


    The EXAMPLE given in James of the "Law of Liberty" is from the 10 commandment
    unit –[/b]
    "HE who said - DO NOT commit adultery ALSO SAID - DO not commit MURDER".
    James 2:11.[/b]

    James is on very Good ground when he states that GOD HIMSELF said
    this - and indeed God even THUNDERED these words of the 10 commandments out
    loud DIRECTLY to the people of God at the foot of Mt. Sinai. James goes on
    "NOW if you do NOT commit adultery BUT DO commit murder you have become a
    TRANSGRESSOR of the LAW"

    James 2:11.

    James is NOT saying this as a way to get all his readers to MURDER without a
    care in the world for murdering as often as they choose. This is an example
    of POOR behavior - NOT the IDEAL behavior for a Christian.

    James then concludes (after just TWO examples of horrendous failure - MURDER
    and Adultery) with "SO SPEAK and ACT as those who ARE TO BE JUDGED by the LAW
    of Liberty" James 2:12


    It is the 10 commandment unit of God's Word that says "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY"
    and "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER".
    A unit Paul recognized in Eph 6:1-2.

    In the book of James the LEVITICAL LAW given by God to MOSES and recorded in Lev
    19:18 is the ROYAL LAW quoted in James 2.

    The LAW of LIBERTY ALSO mentioned in James 2 - IS the 10 commandment law as JAMES
    HIMSELF takes examples from the 10 commandment unit to show what constitutes that LAW of LIBERTY.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Notice what Paul says when it comes to specific examples of the Law - for example the 5th commandment in Eph 6. Does he say "it is TERMINATED this should not be of interest to the saints of God"???

    No.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

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    The pre-cross Commandments of Christ the Creator were to be kept by Christ’s followers.

    John 14:15 ”If you love Me keep My commandments”

    These are the Words of Christ the Creator as He quotes from the 2nd commandment.

    But what exactly did these pre-cross words of Christ “mean” to His Jewish followers – the “primary audience” that exegesis would have us consider?

    Lets see if we can discover that by looking at some more statements found in God’s Word.

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”.

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”. No wonder Paul says --
    So lets see. The law will not change in even the minutest way, till heaven and earth pass. Anyone who breaks the law, and teaches others to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Thinking about committing sin is now just like actually committing the sin. Ah, the law has been magnified. Christ came and fulfilled the law, observing all of it’s commands, even in thought, not just action.

    Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.
    Christ quotes from the 3rd commandment for the statement above.

    Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same
    Notice that John promotes this theme not only with his recording the pre-cross statements of Christ the hCreator – but also the post –cross teaching.
    Christ condemns those who would break the Commandments of God for the sake of man-made tradition –
    Christ’s followers continue to keep the Sabbath commandment after His command that they should “Love Me and Keep My Commandments” John 14:15 (quoting from the 3rd commandment in Exodus 20)
    Why do the Gospel writers take such care to teach us what Christ commanded them?

    Notice that John does not try to “divide God” as if God’s commandments are not Christ’s

    As for Law and Grace -- Pauls words in Romans 2:13-16 come to mind relative to "justification".

    Here the "New Covenant" promise of the "Law written on the heart" is clearly seen.

    Is it any wonder that Paul writes

    And James 2 tells us to live and act as those "Who are to be judged by God's Law of Liberty".

    God is not "calling for rebellion against His Law" as many Christians today "suppose".

    Nor is He "abolishing His law" so that only the lost are guilty of breaking it - but the saved can freely transgress and in fact are commanded not to regard it at all. Rather God declares that the name of God is profaned among the wicked by the breaking of His law among the saints. (in Romans 2)
     
  7. Eliyahu

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    Rome 10:4
    Τελοσ γαρ νομου Χριστοσ¨

    Question is about Telos,which means "End attained, fullfilment"

    Christ didn't end Law without accomplishing its purpose and perfecting it.
     
  8. wopik

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    The word "fulfil" means "fill up, fill full, do, or perform". Jesus Christ performed the laws of God flawlessly, setting us an example that we should follow in His steps.

    When you "fulfil" the laws of your country, you "do or perform" them by obeying them. Obeying the law, such as in never committing arson, burglary, robbery or murder, does not do away with the law, but fulfils it.


    That the word "fulfil" cannot mean destroy, abrogate, annihilate or even "complete" is plain by looking at many of the Psalms, which are prophetic in nature, and looking at the vast majority of the prophets, which are yet future.


    "fulfillment" isn't in the KJV Bible, anywhere.
     
  9. wopik

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    "Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill." (Mat 5:17)


    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" - Matt 5:18.


    Was the law, along with the Prophets and the Psalms fulfilled by Jesus? Isa. 2:2-4 and Micah 4 fortell the establishment of the Kingdom of God on this Earth, the millennial reign of Christ. To claim that Christ "fulfilled the prophets" is utterly ludicrous.
     
  10. wopik

    wopik
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    Jim1999

    Jesus said: "THINK NOT that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets......" Mat 5:17.


    This is how today's preachers read Matt. 5:17: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to destroy."


    What do people do? Look in the Bible to see what it says, so they can SAY the exact OPPOSITE ?


    why WREST Scriptures ? And it's so obvious that people do WREST Romans 10:4, because it makes Paul look inconsistent. Paul told jews and gentiles to keep the Commandments of God (1cor.7:19). If the Law has come to an end, in makes Paul look inconsistent and unbelievable.
     
  11. DHK

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    Are we confined to the KJV translation of this word? Is it possible that other translations might have translated it more accurately? Might there be a good reason behind the WEB's translation:

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the fulfillment of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    Perhaps their translators know a bit more about the word than you do.
    Possible isn't it?
    DHK
     
  12. wopik

    wopik
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    DHK (about romans 10:4)


    you and I fulfil the laws of the land every day ---- that's why we are not in jail;


    That doesn't do away with LAW.


    Christ kept the law PERFECTLY. HE is the perfect example of RIGHTEOUSNESS for the believers to follow.


    HE is the end: it doesn't get any better than Christ.
     
  13. DHK

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    Christ fulfilled the law. He met God's requirement for the penalty of our sin, thus fulfilling the demands or requirements that the law set forth. If he didn't fulfill the law, why are you not bringing forth daily sacrificing to the Levitical priests that they may offer them on your behalf? Why are you not keeping all the Levitical laws written in the Book of Leviticus?
    The blood of bulls and goats can never take away sin. But the sacrifice of Christ once and for all did take away sin. Why? He fulfilled the demand of the law in doing so.
    DHK
     
  14. wopik

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    Then why does Paul tell jews and gentiles alike to keep the Commandments of God (1cor. 7:19).


    The fact that Paul expected Gentiles to keep the law is demonstrated in many scriptures throughout the book of Romans (e.g. Rom. 3:31; 7:12, 22; etc.)


    Romans 2:25-29 is especially interesting and direct, though often overlooked. Here uncircumcised Gentiles are admonished to be circumcised of the heart (v. 29) and to become Jews inwardly by keeping "the righteousness of the law" (v. 26) and by fulfilling the law (v. 27). (Obviously Paul could not have meant the full Sinaitic Covenant in his use of the term "law" here, since circumcision was a part of the law.)


    Only with God's Holy Spirit, through Christ, can a human being fulfill the righteousness of the law (Rom. 8:4) and "delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Rom. 7:22).


    http://intercontinentalcog.org/ICGCC/Lesson_Seven.shtml
     
  15. wopik

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    DHK

    I follow you and agree with you except for the italicized part.


    It's preached in today's pulpits that Jesus kept the Law perfectly, so now we no longer have to keep it at all.


    Paul and John implore us to live a RIGHTEOUS life. Righteousness is defined as keeping the Commandments of God (psalms 119:172).


    How can one be free from the law, if we are to live a righteous life ?


    we are not to live a sinful life; and sin is still breaking of the Ten Commandments (Rom. 7:7).


    The Law is SPIRITUAL (Rom 7:14) -- we are to be SPIRITUALLY-MINDED (Rom 8:6).
     
  16. DHK

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    Wopik,
    Your link (and thus info) comes from Garner Ted Armstrong's cult, "the Worldwide Church of God," who very much like the SDA's put much emphasis on the keeping of the Sabbath and the law.

    Some of your references to the Gentiles keeping the law are to the moral law (as in the Ten Commandments) which we are required to do (except for the Sabbath which alone was given as a sign to the Jews--Exodus 31).
    Keeping the law (moral law) has no relevance to fulfilling the law. Christ fulfilled the law, not kept the law. He fulfilled every prophecy, every picture, allegory, etc. We do not keep these laws for they were all fulfilled in Christ when he died for our sins.
    DHK
     
  17. DHK

    DHK
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    That is Old Testament, and no one could. That is why all were under the curse of the law (Gal.3:10). The couldn't save; it could only condemn.

    Romans 8:2-3 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

    For what the law couldn't do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;

    For what the law could not do...God did, sending his in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin in the flesh.
    --That is fairly clear is it not.

    The could only condemn. Righteousness could never be attained by the law, but only through Christ. When I personally accept Christ as my Saviour he takes away my sin and clothes me with a cloak of righteousness, so that God the Father looking down upon me no longer sees sinful DHK, but rather DHK clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. My sins, past, present, and future, have all been cast behind his back, buried in the deepest sea, never to be remembered again--at least as far as salvation is concerned.

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    DHK
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    Please note that we must keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS. The only way to keep All the Commandments is to follow exactly Holy Spirit as we read in Gal 5:16, which will include all the teachings necessary for our daily lives.

    I would say, fullfilment means accomplishment.
    Jesus accomplished All,which doesn't mean the abolition of any single part of the commandments at all, since the animal sacrifice was replaced with the better, perfect, everlasting one at the Cross.
     
  19. DHK

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    Your profile says that you are Brethren and your church is Gospel Chapel. Do you worship on Saturday or Sunday?
     
  20. wopik

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    well stated, Eliyahu

    fulfillment / accomplishment

    ---------------------------------------


    DHK,
    To claim that Christ "fulfilled the prophets" is utterly ludicrous.


    Was the law, along with the Prophets and the Psalms fulfilled by Jesus? Isa. 2:2-4 and Micah 4 fortell the establishment of the Kingdom of God on this Earth, the millennial reign of Christ. To claim that Christ "fulfilled the prophets" is utterly ludicrous.


    The Sabbath was:
    1) made (Mk 2:27) for

    2) mankind


    Ephesians 3:9, ". . . God, who created all things by Jesus Christ."

    ALL THINGS were made by HIM - Jn 1:1-14


    The Sabbath was MADE BY JESUS CHRIST! No wonder, then, He said plainly that He is LORD also of the Sabbath! (Mark 2: 27-28)

    -
    -
     

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