Christ our Creator's Sabbath in Gen 2? Really?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In Genesis 2 we find the 7th day being blessed and Sanctified by God - thus giving mankind a 7 day week - not a 6 day week.

    Genesis 2

    King James Version (KJV)

    2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.



    Exodus 20:8-11

    King James Version (KJV)
    8. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy...


    11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.




    But is the seventh day of Genesis 2 really the Sabbath? Is it the fourth Commandment as D.L. Moody, The Baptist Confession and the Westminster confession insist when they say that all Ten Commandments were given to Adam in Eden before the fall?

    First lets look at the statements they make about the Ten Commandments (including the first FOUR) in Eden - and then some Q&A about the Bible on this topic.

    ==========================================

    Originally Posted by D.L Moody
    The Fourth Commandment

    Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.


    THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

    I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
    "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
    It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

    The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

    I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

    The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness.
    http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The...ents_Text.html
    ======================================





    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    Baptist Confession of Faith

    [FONT=&quot]19.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The Law of God [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written intwo tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away. [/FONT]

    http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part24



    Westminster Confession

    Chapter 19. Of the Law of God.

    19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

    19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

    19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All such ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament.


    http://www.cresourcei.org/creedwestminster.html

     
    #1 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
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  2. BobRyan

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    Objections to Genesis 2:1-3 being the seventh day Sabbath as found in God's Commandments.

    In Genesis 2

    1. It is only called the seventh day in Genesis 2.
    2. The assignment of the name "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" is not given until Exodus.
    3. We know what God did on the seventh day in Genesis 2 but we are not told that this makes the seventh day a holy day for mankind in Genesis 2.
    4. There is no command in Genesis 2 to worship on the seventh-day
    ====================================================

    In the NT -

    1. The first day of the week in the NT is always "the first day of the week" - never anything else in all of scripture.

    We do not know the name of God in scripture until God gives it to Moses. Just as we do not know the name of the seventh day in scripture until God gives it to Moses. But BOTH God AND His seventh day were holy and mankind was obligated to recognize that fact - before Moses.

    2. We are never given a formula for assigning a name or title to week day one of the form "the first day is the Lord's Day" in all of the NT. Yet we are given the formula "the seventh day is the Sabbath" in scripture.

    3. We know what God did on the first day in the NT - Jesus rose from the dead. Knowing what God did "alone' makes this day a day of worship for many Christians without God saying anything at all to that effect.

    4. There is no command in all of scripture saying that each week we are to worship on week day 1.

    So if there is any justification for NT observance of week-day 1 given the extreme lack of support for it as compared to what scripture says about God's Sabbath - then the arguments in favor of God's seventh day in Genesis 2 stand without question and in that case D.L. Moody, the Baptist Confession and the Westminster confessions are justified in their statements on that point.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
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  3. BobRyan

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    Q. If the Seventh day Sabbath is so important why do we see so many first day worship services in the NT but no Sabbath worship services?

    A. In Acts 13, and 17, and 18 we see "sabbath after Sabbath" worship services with the Gospel preached to both Jews and gentiles.

    Not a single example of first day after first day worship and Gospel preaching services where even the gentiles are told "'come back next first day".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Q. The seventh-day Sabbath as given in the Ten Commandments is only applicable to the Jews in the OT. God never says that the intent for the Sabbath in the OT was for all mankind to come before Him and worship from Sabbath to Sabbath.

    A. In Is 66:23 we are told that ALL mankind is to come before God and worship from Sabbath to Sabbath -- for all eternity even in the New Earth not just for a short while in the OT or a short while after the cross.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Q. If the Sabbath is so important why doesn't God make a big deal about it in the NT?

    In Rev 14 - the last half we have the 2nd coming where God reaps the harvest of the earth - first the saints are reaped and then the wicked are reaped for the wine press of the wrath of God.

    In the first part of Rev 14 - the last warning message to the World comes in the form of 3 angels giving the warning message. It because with a quote from the Sabbath Commandment in the Ten Commandments - it begins with Exodus 20:11.

    And it ends with the statement that the saints are those who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus.

    See Rev 14:6-12.

    6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Ex 20:
    11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #5 BobRyan, Apr 27, 2013
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  6. Alcott

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    No wonder that guy's name was moody.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    The author of hebrews tells us what TRUE sabbath keeping is for us today under the new covenant, and its NOT the SDA version!

    trust in the word of god, not your prophetess!
     
  8. BobRyan

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  9. BobRyan

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    Matt 28:1 was recently listed as the basis/call/justification for keeping week-day-1 as a holy day, a day of worship etc.

    Based on "what God did" on that alone -without any command from God , or name for the day, just week-day-1.

    Yet in Gen 2:1-3 we have God declaring that the day is sanctified and blessed. No such statement for week-day-1 in Matt 28:1.

    In Ex 20:8-11 God says that "He rested on the seventh day therefore He blessed it and made it holy" giving it the name "Sabbath".

    No such "God blessed it and sanctified it and gave this special name" is found in all of scripture for week-day-one.

    No reference to week-day-1 after week-day-1 worship services in all of scripture.

    Yet for Christ's Sabbath we have a lot of mention of it in both NT and OT.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    ANY day is acceptable to the lord now, for OT/law were JUSt shadows and types pointing to the reality of the messiah, and we now live under him in Covenant of grace!
     
  11. BobRyan

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    "Therefor the Lord Blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy" - Ex 20:11.

    He did not bless "any ol day you choose" as it turns out.

    And Is 66:23 is clear that "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "Shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship". The new earth and all of eternity -- instead of "stopped at the cross".

    Christ did not say in the Gospels "the Sabbath is any day of your choosing". (What a great text that would be - if it existed)

    Rather He said that to teach others to disregard God's Law is wrong (Matt 5).

    And in Mark 7:11-13 Christ condemns the idea of bending one of the Ten Commandments to fit man-made traditions.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    that in place UNTIL time of yeshua, for ALL of that was fulfilled and summed up in Him, so NOW we do not look to the law, nor ewhat Sabbath to worship, but to live for Gof by the empowering of his holy spirit!

    You can live under the old covenant, but the new has now come!
     
  13. BobRyan

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    I guess I am fortunate that you are quoting you and not the Bible.

    In the Bible we find this -

    "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

    "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

    "Keep the Commandments of God" 1John 5:2

    The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12.

    Heb 8 "The LAW of God" is "written on the heart and mind" under the "New Covenant.

    And so - "long AFTER" the cross we have Isaiah 66:23 predicting that in the New Earth of Rev 21 "From Sabbath to Sabbath.. shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

    I think we are starting to see a pattern.

    No wonder even your own Baptist Confession, - so notably affirmed by C.H Spurgeon supports this basic Bible teaching. As does and D.L. Moody and Andy Stanley.


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Context again! paul is addressing if we can live as the devil once saved by grace of God, NO was his answer to that, but he also stated thatthe ONLY way that we are to live is thru and by the HS in us, NOT by tring to rekkep the law that Jesus already fully kept!
     
  15. BobRyan

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    God's actual commandments come up in these Bible texts - no need that we should fear them for as John said - 'His Commandments are not burdensome" 1John 5:2-3 - for the saints.

    "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

    "What matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

    "Keep the Commandments of God" 1John 5:2

    The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God" Rev 14:12.

    Heb 8 "The LAW of God" is "written on the heart and mind" under the "New Covenant.

    And so - "long AFTER" the cross we have Isaiah 66:23 predicting that in the New Earth of Rev 21 "From Sabbath to Sabbath.. shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    You just do not get it. Matthew 28:1 is justification for worshiping on the first day of the week. Your arguments sound exactly like the Pharisees criticizing Christ and the disciples for working on Saturday.

    How does worshiping on Sunday bend one of the Ten Commandments to man's tradition?
    The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the "first day of the week" (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

    In the Old Testament, God stated, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you," (Exodus 20:8-10, NASB). It was the custom of the Jews to come together on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, cease work, and worship God. Jesus went to the synagogue on Saturday to teach (Matt. 12:9; John 18:20) as did the apostle Paul (Acts 17:2; 18:4). So, if in the Old Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and in the New Testament we see Jews, Jesus, and the apostles doing the same thing, then why do we worship on Sunday?

    First of all, of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were restated in the New Testament. (Six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).

    In creation, God rested on the seventh day. But, since God is all powerful, He doesn’t get tired. He doesn’t need to take a break and rest. So, why does it say that He rested? The reason is simple: Mark 2:27 says, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." In other words, God established the Sabbath as a rest for His people, not because He needed a break, but because we are mortal and need a time of rest, of focus on God. In this, our spirits and bodies are both renewed.

    The OT system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezek. 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2, etc.).

    But with Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law as a means for our justification. The requirements of the Law were fulfilled in Christ. We now have rest from the Law. We now have "Sabbath", continually.

    Within the New Testament is ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.

    "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God," (Rom. 14:5-6).
    The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. The instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be mans’, but God’s. To me, this verse is sufficient to answer the question beyond doubt.

    "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col. 2:16-17).
    Notice the time sequence mentioned in Col. 2:16-17 above. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath. So, if someone is judging you because you worship on the Sabbath, they are wrong. Likewise, if you regard Sunday above Saturday (Rom. 14:5-6), all you need to do is be convinced in your own mind that that is alright.

    Is there any evidence in the NT that Christians met on Sunday?
    "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight," (Acts 20:7).
    The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday, though it does not necessitate it. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching/teaching). Additionally, Luke included the Roman system as well as the Jewish system of counting days. The Jewish system was sundown to sundown. But Luke also used the Roman system: midnight to midnight (Luke 11:5; Acts 16:25; 20:7; 27:27). This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not exclusively used by Luke.

    "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come," (1 Cor. 16:1-2).
    Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday, the first day of the week and it is that day the Galatians were to set money aside collections. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide. Does this verse apply to Christians today? It most certainly does.

    "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea," (Revelation 1:10-11).
    The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Rev. 1:10: "This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of "te kuriake hemera." The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century" (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).

    In many churches today, the term "The Lord’s Day" is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.

    I hope this is evidence enough to show you that the Bible does not require that we worship on Saturday. If anything, we have the freedom (Rom. 14:1-12) to worship on the day that we believe we should. And, no one should judge us in regard to the day we keep. We are free in Christ and not under law, (Rom. 6:14).

    The Seventh Day Adventists have every right to worship on the Sabbath and they should if they are convinced that is the right thing to do. However, if any member of any church were to require a person to worship on the Sabbath as a sign of "true" Christianity or "true" redemption, then that is wrong. According to Rom. 14:1-12, we are free.

    Additionally, Sunday is the day that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead. The Jewish people who had rejected Jesus continued to worship on Saturday, the Sabbath. But it was the Christians who celebrated Jesus' resurrection and this was most probably the driving force to gather on the first day of the week.

    IMO, SDAs are more dangerous to Christianity than the RCC, and equal Mormons and JWs.
     
    #16 saturneptune, May 1, 2013
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  17. BobRyan

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    "Therefor the Lord Blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy" - Ex 20:11.

    He did not bless "any ol day you choose" as it turns out.

    And Is 66:23 is clear that "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "Shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship". The new earth and all of eternity -- instead of "stopped at the cross".

    Christ did not say in the Gospels "the Sabbath is any day of your choosing". (What a great text that would be - if it existed)

    Rather He said that to teach others to disregard God's Law is wrong (Matt 5).

    And in Mark 7:11-13 Christ condemns the idea of bending one of the Ten Commandments to fit man-made traditions.

    Nothing in Matt 28:1 says "Worship on the first day of the week".

    For that command for a weekly day of worship in actual scripture you have to go to Isaiah 66.

    Is 66:23 is clear that "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "Shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship". The new earth and all of eternity -- instead of "stopped at the cross".

    Matt 28:1 says nothing about "And so the Lord Blessed week-day 1 and made it holy". For that commandment about a day of the week - you have to go to Gen 2:3 and Exodus 20:11. But then you will be reading about God's Sabbath.

    In each case - the appeal from scripture and the Sabbath is to the "Word of God" - but the appeal to week-day-1 is to man-made-tradition.

    On the contrary - Christ condemns the Pharisees for replacing the Ten Commandments with the traditions of man.

    Mark 7

    5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
    6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.





    .
    The records show that only ONE day of worship is found in the NT with week-after-week worship services by Christian Jews and Christian and non- Gentiles - Gospel sermon after Gospel sermon.

    Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 all of them record it.

    And in Acts 15 we are told that this happens every Sabbath.



    There is no "Gather the money" in 1Cor 16 - much less 1Cor 16:1.

    There is no "gather for worship on week-day-1" in 1Cor 16, much less 1Cor 16:1.

    There is "collect an offering when you are gathered for worship each week-day-1" in all of 1Cor 16 - much less 1Cor 16:1.

    There is no "week day 1 is the day we gather for worship and for collecting an offering - and so we call it the Lord's Day" - in all of 1Cor 16 - much less in 1Cor 16:1.

    And I think we all know that. So at least this is a point were all can agree.



    I fully agree that you can find "A meeting" that happened to take place on a week-day 1 - at least once or twice in all of the NT.

    But you never find weekly services for week-day-1 the way it is found for "Sabbath after Sabbath" worship services you find in Acts 13, in Acts 15, in Acts 17, and in Acts 18.


    I can't believe you are asking that question. It is indeed a good one given that the "Sola Scriptura" example and teaching of the NT is found in Acts 17:11 "They studied the SCRIPTURES daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so" - is a reference to what you have called "the old testament". For it is the "ALL SCRIPTURE" of 2Timothy 3:16 that is inspired by God - as read by NT saints.


    That is true - but then again - I am surprised you would bring the point up that the NT quotes from all the TEN Commandments except number 3- the commandment not to take God's name in vain.

    But we are blessed to know that there is no such thing in scripture as "whatever is not repeated must be deleted".

    That is man-made tradition - not scripture that would try to do that.

    The exact language of the Sabbath commandment is directly quoted in the NT.

    True - the Sabbath was "made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27.

    I am surprised you would bring that up.

    It fits perfectly with Isaiah 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath" says God speaking of the New Earth long AFTER the cross - "Shall ALL mankind come before Me to Worship".


    Paul says in Gal 1:6-11 that "there is only ONE gospel" and HE says that the ONE Gospel was "preached to US just as it was to THEM also" in Heb 4:2 speaking of the OT saints.

    The OT was not the imaginary gospel of works that many have speculated.


    John says that the LAW of God defines sin still to this very day "SIN is transgression of the Law" 1John 3:4.

    And John says that the NT saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12. John says that to NT saints the Commandments of God " are not burdensome" 1John 5:2-3.

    In Gal 3 Paul says that "the Law was NEVER given as a means of justification" - the true Gal 1:6-11 ONE Gospel model of God.

    In Rom 3:31 Paul says "Do we then make VOID the Law of God by our faith?? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

    Paul insists in 1Cor 7:19 that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

    indeed - He kept the law perfectly. He loved God with all of His mind and soul - perfectly.

    He Loved His neighbor as Himself - perfectly.

    He did not have other God's before the ONE true God - perfectly.

    But in no way did He declare that we should live in rebellion these commandments since He obeyed perfect.

    instead of that John says that the one who claims to know and love Christ - should "walk as HE walked". 1John 2:3-6

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. Alcott

    Alcott
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    And HE refused the order of the sabbatarians to stop his disciples from harvesting grain on the sabbath, and HE told a man he had just healed of paralysis to carry his pallet on the sabbath. You would have been right at home condemning HIM for those things.
     
  19. BobRyan

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  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Bob, first I want to tell - by the way - where you and I the first time were in discussion on Galatians 4:10. It was here, http://www.baptistboard.com/archive/index.php/t-12109.html, 08 08 05.

    I just want to say it remains the most pleasant eye-opener to me to the courage a SDA could show, to so diametrically take in position over against his own church.
    God bless you in this open confession of yours of Scripture-TRUTH.

    Now EXACTLY the same principle dictates the understanding that in Matthew 28:1 it 'says', "Worship on the Sabbath Day". [Definitely not “on the First Day” like you said, yes!]

    It is the SAME principle that in the two Old Testament Fourth Commandments dictates the reason why it 'says', "Worship on the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD."

    How does the Day and the PURPOSE for it meet one another so that the Sabbath DAY, becomes the Day-of-WORSHIP?

    It is the great ACT OF GOD OF HAVING "finished", "blessed", "sanctified" and "rested", "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD" that AT ALL invested in it that worthiness, dignity and honour that made "WORSHIP" of God of its ESSENCE (in the Exodus 20 Fourth Commandment).

    And it is the great ACT OF GOD OF HAVING REDEEMED Israel and of having brought them out of the Land of Egypt and into the promised land ON "the day The SEVENTH Day SABBATH of the LORD GOD" that infused in it that worthiness, dignity and honour, that "WORSHIP" of God ON IT is of its ESSENCE (in the Deuteronomy Fourth Commandment).

    In neither of these Fourth Commandments are the words or idea literally found that ‘say’ to “WORSHIP on the Sabbath Day”. It is observed there for its indisputable and absolute TRUTH BY ITSELF.

    Now the same is true in Matthew 28:1.
    The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is first SEEN in Matthew 28:1 although it is not ‘said’ in so many words in it.
    Then Christ’s resurrection is believed for its Salvation it holds for all Believers in Christ.
    And last, it is seen Matthew 28:1 ‘says’ – to the eye and soul beholding it through FAITH –, ‘WORSHIP God therefore ON the day The Seventh Day ON WHICH He RAISED Christ from the dead, and THEREFORE made it the SABBATH of the LORD, YOUR, God.’

    By FAITH! By faith every dispensation has had its own Seventh Day Sabbath for its own Salvation Act-of-God.
    By faith ONLY is Truth that is GOD’S Truth, seen, or it isn’t seen at all.
    And that Truth of God is seen in the REDEMPTION which He “WORKED” in “CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD”. Or it isn’t seen at all.
    And that Truth of God seen in the REDEMPTION which He “WORKED” in “CHRIST when He RAISED Him from the dead”, is seen in God’s every historic demonstration of it “ON THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD”. Or ‘WORSHIP on the Sabbath Day’ is by every means unreasonable, unjustifiable, and, ungodly.

    It is the SAME UNDERLYING PRINCIPLE which made you, Bob Ryan, come to different conclusion with regard to Galatians 4 that must bring you to a different perception with regard to the Fourth Commandment as through faith discoverable in, of all places, Matthew 28:1.

     
    #20 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2013

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