CHRIST: Sinless or not?

I say no. Jesus was perfectly human, perfectly God, in him was found no guile.

About cussing ? I don't believe he did. He may have cursed them, but I'm betting he used few words, and relied on his actions.

 

An interesting question, brother Jim. How are you, by the way? I think that for one to understand the gospel properly, one must understand that Jesus was the sinless lamb of God. The question must then be, does one have to properly understand the gospel in order to benefit from faith in Christ and receive eternal salvation. Certainly the thief on the cross understood that Jesus suffered beside him not because of any sin that He was guilty of, but could you go on to say that the thief understood that Jesus never sinned during His entire life on earth?

 

not sure what your point is here. is my salvation based on whether or i believe Jesus drank alchoholic wine?

Absolutely! Is Jesus sinless, yes. do i fully know His character? no. could i be mistaken about something in His character, and still be saved? of course.

 

My question is, how does believing that wine is not sinful and believing that Jesus drank wine make that big of a deal?

I certainly don't accuse the grape juice folks of believing in another Jesus. That is crazy.


I believe the wine in the Bible contained alcohol. I believe Jesus drank it and was sinless.

Others believe that some wine in the Bible did NOT contain alcohol and this is what Jesus drank. They believe He was sinless.


Big deal.


Now, saying that what you believe on the topic of wine somehow affects your salvation IS a big deal!

 

Exactly.
Since we are saved by grace and not works, then it is not required for us to have every theological problem solved.

That said we should strive for sound doctrine but only because we are saved, not in order to obtain salvation.

 

Simply put, sin is anything that is opposed to the character and Person(s) of God.

I hope it is the other way around. I look to Jesus to learn about the character of God. I study what Jesus did and learn how to live my own life under His power and direction.

Those who follow Jesus in discipleship are saved. (There are also other believers, who have been misled or left ignorant regarding the nature of the calling of Christ who have also been saved, but they are missing out on the blessings and responsibilities of the Kingdom.

Yes, it happens all the time. When one comes to Christ, they are usually extremely ignorant about the things of God and do not understand what committed disciples of Christ understand as fundamental principles. Since God's grace is not bound by intellectual capacity or restrained by a lack of imagination on the part of the believer. Eleven of the 12 closest disciples became full believers at some point during their three years with Jesus. Much of their experience with Christ was characterized by gross misunderstandings regarding His character, His mission, and His priorities. Yet in the end, 11 of the 12 were true believers.

 

Conjecture.

The Bible does not say that the thief did not know of Jesus' life on earth. It is highly possible that the thief saw or heard of the things of Jesus before the cross. In Mark 1 we know that the works of Jesus were noised abroad by the leper that was cleansed.

That thief certainly walked that last mile with Jesus and I am sure he must have heard the cries of the ones witnessing that walk to Calvary.

 

The question was if a person understood Jesus' sinless life, believed in His death, ressurection, atonement for our sins, even repented etc., yet saw no reason to think that the wine He made or could have drunk wasn't alcoholic...is this person's salvation in doubt. I asked the question because that is what was being alluded to, but never directly answered.

The distinction is not about the nature or work of Jesus, but on a piece of historical information; such as was the wine alcoholic? It appeared that a person's salvation hinges not only on the work of Jesus, but on bits of historical facts that may or may not be true. That was the answer I received through vague responses; if it was wrong, I have no idea. I was never corrected to think otherwise.

 

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)

Many will think they are doing the work of the Father and not even truly know the One the Father has sent. We must know Him.

 

Don't get your hopes up.
HB is better than Bill Clinton at dodging questions.

 

Just a warning, quoting from this verse does not exempt you from it's contents.

 

Dale,

Quit with your attacks. It is very unChrist-like.

 

I will not claim that everything I do is Christlike.
But lying certianly does NOT become a believer.

Something you have done everytime you say you have answered Dan's question.

 

I definitely agree with you on this verse...however the context is speaking about the fruit of people claiming to do the work of God. Jesus said that "you'll recognize them by their fruit." He is talking about DOING the will of God. He is not talking about a piece of factual information such as was the wine alcoholic, or nonalcoholic. I don't think the context of this verse supports the fact you believe those who believe the wine was alcoholic are not saved. That soteriology is unbiblical. It focuses on believing extra-biblical notions that are not even necessarily true (that the wine was non-alcoholic).

 

Is that really the issue, though? I thought you were talking about whether your "inaccurate knowlege" exempts you from salvation. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, your examples have more to do with the rewards and/or consequences a saved person will experience.

 

I vote for "Christ is sinless."

If He had sinned, He could not have been the perfect sacrifice, and we would all still be dead in our sins.