Christian Charity .... Where and When do You Draw the Line!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Photos of Los Angeles Skid Row. An area of ministry my wife and I know so very well. We spent one day a month at the Los Angeles Union Rescue mission for 34 years. We also ministered at the Midnight Mission, Los Angeles MIssion and Fred Jordan Mission. Then we would minister at Orange County Rescie MIssion and Circle City Homeless Sheleter in Corona, CA.

    I am all to familiar with the needs of Americans who need a hand out to lift them back up to a place of productivity in society. I think a lot of Americans have forgotten our big cities and small one too, are being over run by homeless, needy folks who have children in tow!

    Look at some photos from the LA Skid Row area! And tell me, were do we draw the line on empathy?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Jul 6, 2014
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  2. righteousdude2

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    Some more photos of Skid Row!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #2 righteousdude2, Jul 6, 2014
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  3. questdriven

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    Well, no one is against helping the needy. At least, I hope not.

    At the same time, people have to be willing to work themselves into a better situation. I don't think anyone has a problem giving them a hand--in the past my family has needed help and there were ministries there to help us when we couldn't afford certain things. I'm thankful for that.

    But you don't want people becoming dependent on this help. If someone's perfectly capable of working and earning their own money, then they don't need to be living all their lives on charity.
    There are always people who need help, but people living on it that don't need to be only end up taking away from those who genuinely need it...y'know?
     
  4. righteousdude2

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    If you can stand it. one more photo of Skid Row!

    I am just saying, that we, as Americans, have a serious problem with homeess, and empathy can only be spread so far.

    Here is the 2013 report on National homelessness. https://www.onecpd.info/resources/documents/ahar-2013-part1.pdf

    Here is a report on homeless vets in 2013, and you need to also remember that the VA has demonstrated an unwillingness to take care of our vets medical needs in a timely manner.

    http://www.endhomelessness.org/pages/veterans



    Sure, the government will be all welcoming and helpful to immigrants here illegally, but what has the government really done on a long termbasis that is successful. These homeless immigrants here illegally will one day soon be your problem and mine, begging at street corners, and maybe even robbing us.

    When does it end? Please tell me. When des empathy and charity reach a saturation point where we have to say enough is enough, No mas!

    [​IMG]
     
    #4 righteousdude2, Jul 6, 2014
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  5. questdriven

    questdriven
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    Yeah, true. I mean, yeah, we want to help people, but if trying to take on more people will only break everything and make living conditions worse, what's the point in that?
     
  6. righteousdude2

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    I agree...

    Yet, and I don't mean to disrespect your point of view .... isn't the Obama administration as a whole, adding to the roles of the entitled daily?

    I think the borders should be closed until we, as a nation, get a leg up on getting the homeless off the streets, and putting people back to work!

    With each new immigrant here illegally, we are adding one more mouth to feed, one more body to shelter and clothe. And because there are fewer jobs than there are people to fill them, we are encouraging welfare and homelessness.

    I've read of several job opening in my area of California, where there was like one job, and a line of three hundred people waiting to apply.

    My god friend is ging on his fifth year of being unemployed. He worked for Edison, rebuilding transformer untis. It is now being done in Mexico, and five hundred people lost a job here in California. And he goes to three or four interviews a week and tells me that there are hundreds of peple in line for one of two or three jobs. This is sad!Where do we stop and say, let's fix this before we try to fix the worlds problems on the backs of our already entitled and needy citizens?

    We've dug a hole that is only getting deeper, and as aong as we have pourous borders, the hole goes deeper.

    This is what the portesters in Murrieta are standing for. They are saying, Mr. Obama, we can barely take care of our own cildren, our classrooms are filled to capacity, and we just don't see us being able to take on hundreds of thousands of more kids!
     
    #6 righteousdude2, Jul 6, 2014
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  7. JamesL

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    Are you looking to be comfortable, or are you looking for Christ to be magnified?

    You seem to be all in favor of going to skid row to "help", as long as there are only enough people to stay there and not on your front lawn.


    Sometimes it has nothing to do with empathy. Jesus said you'll always have the poor with you. But if you feel that you've been called to minister to them, them you should welcome them into your neighborhood too - even if it means getting beat up and robbed once in a while
     
  8. questdriven

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    Actually I feel that charity is (or should be) the responsibility of the church rather than the government. And I do think the church is doing more than some might think, just they're not being loud about it. (My church has a couple who help provide food for needy families, and they support other ministries.)

    I'm not too great at explaining myself on economic and financial matters. Part of it is I'm young (just turned 21) and have very little real world experience. You'd think it would be simple, but all the political speak mucks it up and makes it confusing. And I'd just prefer to stay the heck out of the political side.

    But since this is about illegal immigrants...I admit I don't have an entirely set opinion, but one thing's for sure: I'm all for legal immigrants.
    Ideally, more immigrants would mean more people to work and contribute to the economy, but if they're just coming here for help and free stuff...yeah, that's not helping. I do see what you're saying and I think agree.
     
  9. righteousdude2

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    You are ....

    really being ridiculous. Your questions are meat to provoke, kind of like trolling!
     
  10. JamesL

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    Provoke, yes - thought, that is

    You seem to be focused on the here-and-now, for your world to be transformed into an ideal place for you now. But that's not scriptural

    Scripture tells us that the world is going to go to hell in a hand basket before Jesus returns. That we are sojourners looking for our home in heaven, and that we are to count this world as nothing

    Instead of hoping for this life, you should have your hope set on a glorious return of our King, who will set straight all the ills of this present world

    But you're all into the politics of this world, the morality of this world, the immigrants of this world, the finances of this world, and seem to have no hope beyond this world.

    God help you, brother, if that is the case
     
  11. righteousdude2

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    Did I ask for your view on my standing with God?

    I do understand your point, James, but we still have to live in this world while wait for His return. Unless you know something that most of us don't, and that is a date and time for the return, we have to be good stewards with what He gave us, here and now!

    There is no assurance. He will return in your lifetime or mine, which is why we must be concerned with the standard of living around us!

    Surely, He knows every hair on our head, and he knows where we will lay our head each night, but not providing for our well being in the here and now sounds more like a WOF/Name-it-claim-it theology, and that leaves me wondering if we have a wolves in the midst?

    I've spent time in WOF and NICI, and I am aware of their teaching that we need not worry or be concerned with what is going on around us because He is coming back, and I pray it be sooner than later, so let the world go to hell in a hand basket as you say, we are not to be concerned with this place. After all, if we have faith, the world can fall apart all around us, and He has our back, and will have our back until He returns!

    That is all well and good, but we are also put here to take care of the world He created and gave to us! If this wasn't true, then in the OT, no one needed to flee immorality; fight tyranny; and go to war when God so ordained it!

    I do not quite know where you and your theology is coming from, but if I need help, I'd say you need help too! :flower:

    Well, that is not the case, but convincing someone that thinks they know another and what is in that persons heart, based on a cyber evaluation is another form of Dr. Phil psycobabble. Secondly, I didn't ask for an opinion from you. I am quite capable of knowing the voice of God from the voice of peer trying to be more than what they are called to be. Tend to your own herd, and we'll both be fine!

    In the future, before you cast pious verdict in the direction of others on this board, try examining your own heart and soul! Jesus did warn people like you, "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…" I'm the one who should be feeling empathy for you, because you have elevated the measure by which you will be judged by several notches! :smilewinkgrin:

    Finally, I care not what you think or say, only I can know the depth of what is in my heart and soul, and only God will be my judge. I think there are way too many Pharisees on this board. Now I'm not calling you a Pharisee, just saying that if the toga fits, well, you get the idea!

    The truth is, I don't know you from a hole in the ground, and if you are anything like what you sound like in your comments, I prefer to keep it that way. You know how there are some in the body that you just can't stomach! Well, from the little, I know of you and from what I've seen in other comments to other board members, I'd say you are not going to get many friend requests, but some brothers and sisters like that kind of fellowship!

    Some friendly advice .... Next time, instead of analyzing the author of the OP, try analyzing the content, and restricting your comments to the topic at hand and not what you think the person is like in regards to their relationship with God. As I said, only God can be my judge, so butt your mind and heart of my walk! I am on target, and I'm sure you are too. We are just not at the same place in the path! But be assured, everytime I see the political problems of this country, I am excited with the thought that one day, soon, we will no longer have a clueless president leading, or misleading us! We will be under the love and rule of Jehovah Jireh, our eternal provider! :flower:
     
  12. Zaac

    Zaac
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    BINGO.

    :applause: This is what is coming out of a lot of folks in the church. It has created some very nasty people who appear to care more about THIS world and holding on to their stuff and a style of living than they do about loving their neighbors out of the overflow of their love for Christ.

    God can handle taking care of His Children. But we repeatedly act as though if we don't fix things with our politics to the way we think they should be, then this country will just be unbearable. And that is done with no consideration that 95% of the world's population lives outside the US and is watching how we the church responds to the poor and people period.

    You nailed it and it is the case for a lot of folks. That's why anything that has a political slant to it is dealt with and talked about in the same snide, nasty way by the same people.
     
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    At the limitation of one's resources.

    When the objective of the ministry is overwhelmed by the numbers seeking to be served, there are two choices:
    • Stop doing the ministry.
    • Find other resources to supplement the ones available.
    Which one is the proper way to do Christ's work?
     
  14. Zaac

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    Should true ministry really be limited by OUR resources? I think about the feeding of the four and five thousand. If it were up to them and THEIR resources, thousands wouldn't have eaten or heard the Gospel that day and been pointed to JEsus and eternal life.

    Are we allowing folks to go to hell because of OUR resources?
     
  15. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Let me know when you actually read the post and give me your real answer.
     
  16. ShagNappy

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    Proverbs 21:13

    Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

    Acts 20:35

    In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

    Hebrews 13:16

    Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

    1 John 3:17

    But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

    Proverbs 19:17

    Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

    Deuteronomy 15:7-11

    “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

    Matthew 5:42

    Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

    Proverbs 31:8-9

    Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.
     
  17. TCassidy

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    It seems that a lot of people in this thread have forgotten what the bible has to say.

    Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

    Isaiah 58:10 If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.

    Proverbs 28:27 Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

    James 2:14-18 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

    Luke 3:11 And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

    1 John 3:17-18 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

    In the early days of my ministry I spent a lot of time at the Emanuel Baptist Rescue Mission on East Fifth Street and Crocker in Los Angeles. We fed a lot of hungry men. We provided showers, clean clothing, and a bed for the night. But most important we preached the gospel to them every evening. In my time there we saw over 600 souls come to Christ and directed them into a discipleship program. Many of those men are in the ministry today.

    All for a few beans, some donated meat, used clothing, and soap and water. And a whole lot of love, compassion, and caring.

    :)
     
  18. Zaac

    Zaac
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    Read the post and gave my real answer. Sorry it didn't meet your agreement.
     
  19. Zaac

    Zaac
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    Preach it. :thumbsup: Acting like Christ will cost you. I just wonder of there are enough true followers who don't mind paying the cost?
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    There are a growing number ....

    .... of persons who do not read the post, but use the post as their personal dais to present their agenda.

    I think we have an infestation of social vermin on the board, and we need to break out the:

    [​IMG]
     

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