Christian Feminism...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by UnchartedSpirit, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    I've encountered it once before in my lifetime and couldn't counter their arguments then, but seeing it again and still having no rebuttal is rather depressing even after all these years....

    http://christianfeminism.wordpress.com/
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

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    Well, I know what the author believes about "feminism" but I don't really know what the author believes about Christ, the Bible, Salvation, et. No statement of faith.

    She says she is "very aware and respectful of Scripture." Well, around Muslims I can be "very aware and respectful of their scripture" but not regard it as the Word of God.

    She makes much adoo about contextualizing the words of Scripture to the times and culture in which they were written. But I see of the glorification of God in her pursuits and more of her attempt to exalt herself, or "women." Her contention is "men and women are equal in matters of ministry, leadership and marriage." In her world there is no head of the household, no husband to submit to in authority.

    And of course with her blog site, no comments allowed. lol

    She does want to try to refute what she deems as a misunderstanding of Scripture, but her "ministry" yet seems to be to women. If her interpretations are correct, where are the examples in the NT? And one last thought...I think her initial thesis is faulty. While the epistle to Timothy does deal with false teachers, I think the main theme of the letter is how he should behave himself in the household of God, preserve discipline in the church, and how all people ought to conduct themselve in the church.

    I think this author missed her part for her feminism.
     
  3. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Christian Feminism?

    Oxymoron.
     
  4. donnA

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    I've heard of feminism from a christian prespective, meaning it lining up with scripture. Such as, theres nothing unbiblical about women voting, women working when it is needed, or expecting equal pay for an equal job.
    But this woman is a nut.
     
  5. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    The Bible says......

    1 Corinthians 11:3
    “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;
    and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.”
     
  6. youngmom4

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    We really don't even need to dignify stuff like this with a response. Anyone who reads the entire Bible, in context, will know that feminism isn't taught anywhere within. Women aren't doormats, but we don't need to constantly rule the men in our lives either. I am a strong woman...hubby will tell you I'm as hardheaded and stubborn as they come! :laugh: I have found since being married, though, that I do need my husband to take his role; that while I have the ability to get things done, that does not mean that I always need to be the one to do them. When I was a single mom, I had to be in control constantly, for my boys' sake. I had to be the protector and provider because nobody else was going to do it. Now, my husband is the provider, protector, and manly presence in our home. I love being able to relax and allow myself to be emotional sometimes. Where before I always had to be strong, now I have someone to be strong for me...and I don't care how strong any woman is, we all need somebody to hold us when we cry every now and then. :thumbs:
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    First thing I thought of when I read the title.
     
  8. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
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    Just one more example of the "itching ears" syndrome.

    Getting to be more common daily!
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    What argument can you not counter?
     
  10. donnA

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    This womans teachings are in violation of scritpure, and I am sure there are women who want to hear this junk, that way they can have their way in life because someone said the bible says it's ok.
    It seems to me there are fewer and fewer christians all the time who want to live biblically. Does anyone else think so?
     
  11. DrRandyGrace

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    This is garbage. I had enough of that stuff while in Bible college. Toss it out. Don't worry about trying to correct them. Pray that God will open their eyes to their folly before it is too late.
     
  12. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Hi donnA


    You said........

    This is what I was talking about, when I said a while ago......
    “Christendom......we have a problem”
     
  13. superwoman8977

    superwoman8977
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    Okay I am a woman who will not stay home and play mommy to my kids I will not sit by and let a man rule me. If thats wrong then so be it but I have seen so many women give up dream after dream because their hubby told them no or for the kids. Guess what? Like I told my kids mommy is only going to be around till you are 18 I mean I am not going anywhere but when you are 18 you will be out on your own. I am a woman with dreams. and goals and desires too same as a man, I just have the stubborness to achieve them. And thats what it takes a hard head saying I am going to achieve this no matter what the cost. Hats off to women who can sit home and run the house and the kids, but thats not me. The more I get into the word the more I see people like Paul making women 2nd class over a man. I am divorced , Christ is the head of my household and my life and I am a woman. This woman in this article is not crazy, I truly think like me she has been walked on and had the mexican hat dance done on her one too many times and she is doign what all women need to do--stand up for themselves.
     
  14. donnA

    donnA
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    Children are worth any sacrifice.

    This is not in the least bit true. It is a total misunderstanding of scripture. You speak as if you wish to be defiante of scripture, it isn't good enough for you, you don't like God's plan for women, so you plan on doing your own thing.
    Christ is the head of the man, and the man is the head of the household. you can not by pass what scripture actually says to make it up yourself.
    God is not your servant, you get what you want when and how you want it, no mater what He says, and He must obey you and your plans.
    This woman in the article has twisted scripture out of shape till it is no longer the word of God.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    wow. :BangHead:
     
  16. superwoman8977

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    Heres the thing, the more I study the more I see it God's plan needs some "tweaking" if its going to work in the 21st century and beyond. I am single there is no longer a man at the head of my household so for the moment ..which will probably be a long moment, I am the head of my household. Not everyone has the adoring husband and the 2 kids and the house with the white picket fence. I think thats part of what this woman was trying to point out. I am not being defiant of scripture I am just dealing with the hand that was dealt to me you know the whole making lemonade out of lemons thing. I know I have been passed for jobs, etc because I was a woman and you know what I can do anything a man can do I have proved that to myself and to my friends and family over and over again. There are so many women that sit there with their hands in their laps because they dont want to "stir up the pot?" well thats not me. I work for the US Army if I could be a soldier you bet I would be right over there now in Iraq fighting for our country, fighting for our freedom, but since my cancer I cant so I do the next best thing I work for the army, I am a service to the soldiers both men and women. 4th of July is my Christmas I love my country and tomorrow I will celebrate what an awesome country we live in, in addition to remembering all of those fallen heroes who died for our independence, for our freedom. If I am a feminist then so be it, but being feminist isnt always a bad thing. Its standing up for yourself, who you believe in and to not allow yourself to be treated like a doormat or to be beneath a man.
     
  17. Karen

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    http://betweenthetimes.com

    See today's post by Charlotte and Danny Akin. He is president of Southeastern Seminary, a Southern Baptist institution.
     
  18. donnA

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    This is one of the most horrific things I have ever read on the BB.
    God's word is for all time, for those who love Him.
    We are to 'tweak' our lives to match His word, not the other way around. EVER! How can you possible ever say you beleive in the word of God when you need to rewrite it to suit yourself, it is no the word of God you beleive in, but yourself.
     
  19. JustChristian

    JustChristian
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    My take on the topic of equality for woman is that it must be interpreted in light of the way Jesus himself treated woman. I consider the following link to be an excellent discussion of this:

    http://www.godswordtowomen.org/feminist.htm


    The attitude towards women in the Bible needs to be seen in the context of the prevailing attitude of the times, especially the laws and customs of the Jews.

    1) If a woman touched the Torah it had to be burned and "Whoever teaches his daughter the Torah is like one who teaches her lasciviousness. "

    2) Women, along with children and slaves, were not obliged to recite the Shema, the morning prayer, nor prayers at meals. In fact, the Talmud states: "Let a curse come upon the man who must needs have his wife or children say grace for him."

    3) As a Scripture scholar, Peter Ketter, noted, "A rabbi regarded it as beneath his dignity, as indeed positively disreputable, to speak to a woman in public."

    4) In the daily prayers of Jews there was a threefold thanksgiving: "Praised be God that he has not created me a gentile; praised be God that he has not created me a woman; praised be God that he has not created me an ignorant man."

    5) Women were not allowed to bear witness in a court of law.

    6) Philo, a contemporary of Jesus, thought women ought not leave their households except to go to the synagogues (and that only at a time when most of the other people would be at home); girls ought even not cross the threshold that separated the male and female apartments of the household.

    7) Polygamy--in the sense of having several wives, but not in the sense of having several husbands--was legal among Jews at the time of Jesus.

    8) Rabbinic sayings about women also provide an insight into the attitude toward women: "It is well for those whose children are male, but ill for those whose children are female . . . At the birth of a boy all are joyful, but at the birth of a girl all are sad . . . When a boy comes into the world, peace comes into the world; when a girl comes, nothing comes . . .

    9) Our teachers have said: ‘Four qualities are evident in women: They are greedy at their food, eager to gossip, lazy and jealous.’"

    The condition of women in Palestinian Judaism was bleak.

    But then Jesus came into the world. He preached a gospel free to all full of hope.

    How did the Lord treat women? With disdain as one would an inferior being? If anyone thinks that that is the message of Christianity they are sadly mistaken.

    This is the way Jesus treated women:

    1) He taught them the Gospel, the meaning of the Scriptures, and religious truths in general. When it is recalled that in Judaism it was considered improper, and even "obscene," to teach women the Scriptures, this action of Jesus was an extraordinary deliberate decision to break with a custom invidious to women.

    2) Women became disciples of Jesus, not only in the sense of learning from Him, but also in the sense of following Him in His travels and ministering to Him. A number of women, married and unmarried, were regular followers of Jesus. In Luke 8:1 ff., several are mentioned by name in the same sentence with the Twelve: "He made his way through towns and villages preaching and proclaiming the Good News of the Kingdom of God. With him went the Twelve, as well as certain women . . . who provided for them out of their resources."

    3) Jesus raised one woman from the dead (Jairus' daughter (Mt. 9:18ff.; Mk 5:22ff.; Lk. 8:41ff.) and raised two other persons largely because of women (the only son of the widow of Nain, Cf. Lk. 7:13ff, and Lazarus' at the request of his sisters Martha and Mary, Cf. Jn. 11:43-44).

    4) in Jesus' conversation with Martha after she pleaded for the resurrection of Lazarus. Jesus declared himself to be the resurrection, ("I am the resurrection and the life.”) the only time he did so that is recorded in the Gospels. Jesus, here again, revealed the central event, the central message in the Gospel--the resurrection, His resurrection, His being the resurrection--to a woman.

    5) One occasion occurred when Jesus was invited to dinner at the house of a skeptical Pharisee (Lk. 7:36ff.) and a woman of ill repute entered and washed Jesus' feet with her tears, wiped them with her hair and anointed them. The Pharisee saw her solely as an evil sexual creature: "The Pharisee . . . said to himself, 'If this man were a prophet, he would know who this woman is who is touching him and what a bad name she has.’" But Jesus deliberately rejected this approach to the woman as a sex object. He rebuked the Pharisee and spoke solely of the woman's human, spiritual actions; he spoke of her love, her non-love, that is, her sins, of her being forgiven, and her faith. Jesus then addressed her (It was not "proper" to speak to women in public, especially "improper" women) as a human person: "Your sins are forgiven . . .Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

    6) Another happened when Jesus was confronted with a women who had been caught in the very act of committing adultery and that Moses had commanded that such women be stoned to death. (Deut. 22:22ff.) "What have you to say?"
    Jesus spoke directly to the accusers in the context of their own persona1 ethical conduct: "If there is one of you who has not sinned, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." To the accused woman he likewise spoke directly with compassion, but without approving her conduct: "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again."

    7) A third example was when the woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came to the Lord. "And Jesus, perceiving in himself that power had gone forth from him, immediately turned about in the crowd, and said 'Who touched my garments?' And the disciples said to him, ‘You see the crowd pressing around you, and yet you say, ‘Who touched me?' And he looked around to see who had done it. But the woman, knowing what had been done to her, came in fear and trembling and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth. And He said to her, 'Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease."

    It seems clear that Jesus wanted to call attention to the fact that He did not shrink from the ritual uncleanness incurred by being touched by the "unclean" woman (on several occasions Jesus rejected the notion of ritual uncleanness ), and by immediate implication rejected the "uncleanness" of a woman who had a flow of blood, menstruous or continual. Jesus apparently placed a great importance on the dramatic making of this point, both to the afflicted woman herself and the crowd, than He did on avoiding the temporary psychological discomfort of the embarrassed woman, which in light of Jesus' extraordinary concern to alleviate the pain of the afflicted, meant He placed a great weight on the teaching of this lesson about the dignity of women.

    8) Perhaps the best example of how Jesus treated women was that of the Samaritan woman at the well. A Samaritan woman approached the well to draw water. Normally, a Jew would not address a Samaritan as the woman pointed out: “Jews, in fact, do not associate with Samaritans." But also normally a man would not speak to a woman in public (doubly so in the case of a rabbi). However, Jesus startled the woman by initiating a conversation. The woman was aware that on both counts, her being a Samaritan and being a woman, Jesus' action was out of the ordinary; for she replied: "How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?"

    As hated as the Samaritans were by the Jews, it is nevertheless clear that Jesus' speaking with a woman was considered a much more flagrant breach of conduct than His speaking with a Samaritan. John related: "His disciples returned and were surprised to find him speaking to a woman, though none of them asked, 'What do you want from her?' or 'Why were you talking to her?’" However, Jesus, bridging of the gap of inequality between men and women, continued further; for in the conversation with the woman He revealed himself in a straightforward fashion as the Messiah for the first time: "The woman said to him, ‘I know that Messiah is coming' . . . Jesus said to her, 'I who speak to you am he.’"

    Just as when Jesus revealed Himself to Martha as "the resurrection," and to Mary as the "risen one" and bade her to bear witness to the apostles, Jesus here also revealed Himself in one of his key roles, as Messiah, to a woman who immediately bore witness of the fact to her fellow villagers.

    As the crowd of Samaritans was walking out to see Jesus, Jesus was speaking to His disciples about the fields being ready for the harvest and how He was sending them to reap what others had sown. He was clearly speaking of the souls of men and most probably was referring directly to the approaching Samaritans. Such exegesis is standard. But it would seem that the evangelist also meant specifically to include the Samaritan woman among those sowers; for immediately after he recorded Jesus’ statement to the disciples about their reaping what others had sown, he added the above mentioned verse: "Many Samaritans of that town had believed in him on the strength of the woman's testimony .”

    There are other examples like these in the Bible. All I'm saying is that passages like "Women keep silent in the church" must be understood in light of the overwhelming evidence that Jesus did not look upon anyone, not the beggars or the lepers or the Samaritans or even the women, as inferior. His message was that He came to provide abundant life to everyone who would believe on Him and follow Him.
     
  20. donnA

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    What the NT teaches is freedom for women, it in no way shows women as 2nd class citizens or inferior. What it does do it show God's plan for mankind. If we reject it and rewrite it as the woman in the article from the op, then we can not claim to love Jesus.
     

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