Christian Nation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin, Mar 17, 2007.

?

From a Biblical point of view do you believe there is justification for using the phr

  1. Yes.

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  2. No.

    16 vote(s)
    80.0%
  3. I'm Not Sure.

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  1. Martin

    Martin
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    From a Biblical point of view do you believe there is justification for using the phrase "Christian nation" to describe a nation?

    Edit to add: Some explanation for your vote would be interesting. After all it is easy to say "yes" or "no" but it maybe a bit more difficult to Biblically justify your "yes" or "no" on such a trick question. :laugh:
     
    #1 Martin, Mar 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2007
  2. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
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    There is no such thing as a "Christian" nation. If there was then that nation would be sold out to God's leading, and there is no nation like that--including this one. The US has been called a Christian nation, but how can it be when unborn babies are killed by the millions, homosexual unions are sanctioned and protected by laws; violence against the innocent is nationwide, and God has been banned from schools, government buildings, and His word and prayer are not allowed in public places?

    Even many who claim the title of Christian don't live it. There is little or no evidence in many of so-called Christians to prove their claim of being a Christian. Even among those who are Christians, there is very little union and love. We are split over trivial matters and bicker and fight among ourselves while satan sits back and laughs at us playing Christian, and doing his work for him by turning the lost away because of our lack of love for another. I am in the process of changing churches because of this very thing. I refuse to get caught up in the fighting and bickering and name calling and anger over trivial matters.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    Currently there is no Christian nation nor has there ever been a Christian nation. But when Christ returns and heaven and earth are made new, we will have a Christian nation (although it won't bear any resemblance to an earthly kingdom).
     
  4. johnnyfrey12

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    No, there is no "Christian" nation, and the idea of one is absurd to me. First off, a "Christian" nation wouldn't have genocide of unborn babies, millions living in poverty with no help or hope, children being shunned by societies for disablities or being "ugly" and turning to drugs, prostitutions. It wouldn't have young boys getting raped by their fathers and becoming "sexually confused" for the rest of their life and crying out to some nameless, faceless far away God after turning the last "trick" at night because he sells himself on the street because no one ever loved him the right way. Girls feeling "fat" and "ugly" and turning to annorexia. People wouldn't have to ask where is the love? It wouldn't have 9 year olds on drugs because dad split and mom works 2 jobs to support him and his little brother.
    Secondly, Jesus himself never called for a "Christian nation," he however did say "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's." It's dangerous to allow a nation to be run by "Christians," because well it's easy for someone to do something in the name of God, and people love to hear about how the President prays to God before a decision. So in the eyes of the masses, if the President prayed before his decision, whatever he decides must be God's work.
     
  5. Rufus_1611

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    I'm the lone yes vote so here's my explanation.

    It's all about definition. Is the leadership of this nation Christian and thus represent a Christian led nation? By confession, folks like George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, et al are all Christians. The Supreme Court is made up predominantly of professed Christians as is the Congress. By confession we are a Christian led nation. However, if we are to know them by their fruit, I would discern that the bulk of these confessions are lies.

    By confession the people of this nation are folks who allege to be Christian. According to the CIA Worldfactbook the United States is made up of 78% of people who claim Christianity:

    • Protestant 52%
    • Roman Catholic 24%
    • Mormon 2%
    • Jewish 1%
    • Muslim 1%
    • Other 10%
    • None 10% (2002 est.)

    If we are to know them by their fruit however, we can discern that either 78% is a grossly exaggerated number, folks like Mormons and Catholics are not actually Biblical Christians, we have people who claim to be "Protestants" but aren't really, we are living in the time of the great falling away or some combination of all the preceding.

    Thus, I believe by claim, we are a nation of Christ followers, by deed this nation is currently working for someone else.
     
  6. amity

    amity
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    If we believe in the separation of church and state then our answer has to be no. In some instances where there has been an official state sponsored religion then yes, but I do not believe that is scriptural anyway. But Christian, yes it is.
     
  7. Sober_Baptist

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    I wish I could say the US is a Christian nation, but I know better.
    If we were, the roads on Sunday morning would be jammed.
     
  8. Priscilla Ann

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    I wish this were a Christian nation! If it were, the sick, the homeless, and the elderly would be better cared for.
     
  9. johnp.

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    They are here in the UK Sober. Try getting into PC World or HomeBase on a Sunday takes the patience of Saints. :)

    I haven't voted. I believe God honours lip service.

    john.
     
  10. tinytim

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    I join rufus (oh boy, have i lost my mind lol) in the yes category.

    But for a different reason.
    It all depends on who you ask...
    The muslims that are trying to kill us, see us as a Christian nation.
    So in politics, when talking about Jihad, and international affairs, it is important to know how the enemy views us.

    That said, if the muslims would open their eyes, they would see that they don't have to fight to overthrow our Christian Nation...Satan is doing it for them...

    The war could be over, once they realize we are not a Christian nation.
     
  11. Jack Matthews

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    "Nations" cannot be converted to Christ. Only individuals can become Christians.

    The idea that Christianity, or the principles of Christianity, can be enforced through government, is antithetical to the very core of the faith. Christianity isn't a world view, or a philosophical perspective, it is a faith that involves a covenant between God and each individual believer. We have only to look at the state-church system that European nations had for centuries to see how well that works.

    The idea that God blesses a "nation" because of the number of Christians it has within its boundaries, or the effect that those Christians have had on the legislative processes isn't scriptural. What that does is create two levels of redemption--an individual one based on grace, and a redemption of sorts because of being lucky enough to have been born in the right place and time.

    You can pass laws that give general moral guidelines to communities of people, but you can't make people accept the moral basis for those laws. That requires a transformation of the mind that can only come from salvation by grace through faith in Christ and the sanctifying, justifying power of the Spirit.
     
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Boy the liberals really hate it when anyone suggests that God has blessed this country because of its founding and becasue of its diligent outreach to the world so many years. Largely because they hate the idea that God would bless capatalism under any circumstances. America has always had a larger heart for God than most. However in the last 30, 40 years we have certainly declined with rulings such as Roe v. Wade, The rulings against the Tem commandments etc.

    Some want to devide their lives into Christian and secular. However God has given no room for such a thing. We can rationalize leaving god out of some aspect of our lives but it isnt scriptual, nor does it please God.
     
  13. Martin

    Martin
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    I think there are three issues that must be dealt with here.

    First there is the theological/Biblical question. Does the Bible actually teach that there is such thing as a Christian "nation"?

    Second there is the historical question. Was this nation founded as a Christian nation? Or was it founded as a secular nation? Or was it founded by professing Christians who believed in a seperation of church and state?

    Third there is the current question. Does America today behave as a Christian nation?

    In my opinion how a person answers question one will determine how they answer questions two and three. I said this was a trick question, and it is. Why? Because the answer to question one "Does the Bible teach that there can be a Christian nation" is no. The only Christian nation that will ever exist will be the New Jerusalem in which the Messiah Himself will actually rule. Those who claim that America, or any other nation, is/was a Christian nation must confront the first question more carefully. After all America is not the first, or only, nation in the history of the world to have some claim it is a Christian nation. However the Bible never speaks of a Christian nation nor does it teach that there can be a Christian nation. There can be no doubt that many of the American founders were professing Christians* and there can be no doubt that they wanted a country that was friendly towards Christian teachings (while maintaining a level of seperation of church/state). However that does not mean that America was, or is, a Christian nation. Why not? Because such a thing does not exist Biblically.

    Even if the Bible did teach the concept of a Christian nation it is unlikely that America would fit the bill. From the African slave trade in early America, which John Wesley called the worst kind, to the continued religious/political/economic justifications of slavery until after the Civil War, to the practice of abortion on demand (a practice protected by the government), the legal status of pornography, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, unjust government officals, etc, etc. America is not a Christian nation. America is certainly, in my opinion, the best country on the face of the earth. I would not live anywhere else even given the chance to live some other place for free. However that does not mean America is a Christ-like, or Christian, nation. This is simply because (a) the Bible does not teach such a concept and (b) America simply does not behave like a Christian nation.



    _________________________
    *I use the phrase "professing Christian" realizing that many of the founders were not orthodox Christians.
     
    #13 Martin, Mar 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2007
  14. RichardJS

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    No I do not
     
  15. Repairman Jack

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    God has one people, Israel, identified now as the Church, which transcends all ethnic and geo-political boundaries. The Church is the only "Nation" He is concerned with.

    All the rest will be dealt with when our Lord returns.
     
  16. Jamal5000

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    Yes

    Yes, I do if you're talking about the general philosophies (not from a doctrinal view) of a nation from an "outside-looking in" perspective. It's just like calling a neighborhood "a white neighborhood" or a "black neighborhood" or a "Muslin Neighborhood". It's a label given to a group that bear stereotypical characteristics from a surface perspective.

    Similarly, I can see how people can call Brazil or Italy "Catholic Nations".
     
  17. Jack Matthews

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    Would you please show me, in the scripture, where God "blesses" capitalism?

    Amen!
     

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