Christian Zionism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother James, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Brother James

    Brother James
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    Good piece by Jerri Massi

    Christian Zionism: cult-like, dangerous, unbiblical


    Most Christian Fundamentalists take the view that (for some reason which remains largely undefined), Christians must help Israel form a sovereign nation in the borders of ancient Israel, and somehow after this is accomplished (along with the rebuilding of the Temple), the nation of Israel will get some sort of second chance to be saved by Christ, and the rapture will come. I may have the order of those last two items reversed. Fundamentalist eschatology changes so much over time that I no longer invest much energy in following it in great detail.

    What I do follow, however, is the massive body of injustices and atrocities that many who profess Christ have actually defended and applauded against Palestinians, including Palestinians who profess Christ and have never wronged anybody nor taken up the mask of "terrorism." (By the way, many Fundamentalist leaders console their consciences about driving Palestinians off their lands by thinking on the premise that all Palestinians are terrorists or help terrorists or wish they could help terrorists or have a sneaking admiration for terrorists or may someday agree with terrorists.)

    Anyway, as in all matters, the confusion of Fundamentalists about thinking Israel has a "right" to return to its ancient homeland, no matter how many people must be made homeless and impoverished, is based, as always, on ignorance of the Bible. Many Fundamentalists assume that this entity that is a political nation of Israel has an eternal covenant so that no matter what they do, or how they fall away from God, they are still entitled to that land of Promise.

    This, of course, has never been true, not even in the Old Testament. Occupying the Promised Land, in the Old Testament, was always contingent upon the nation's faithfulness to God. He repeatedly warns Israel that if they profane Him, they will either suffer occupation by their enemies in the Land (the Philistines) or they will be removed from the Land (the Captivities).

    Passages that remind the nation of this truth abound in the Old Testament, but here are just a few:
    Lev 25:18 Wherefore ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; and ye shall dwell in the land in safety.

    Deu 12:29-30 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? **even so will I do likewise.**

    Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

    Zep 1:12-13;18 And it shall come to pass at that time, [that] I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The LORD will not do good, neither will he do evil.
    Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
    * * * * [Snipped for brevity; suggest you read the whole chapter]
    Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

    Furthermore, the Israel of the Covenant was not defined by God as a political entity. The Israel that God blessed was the body of people who trusted God and were faithful to Him. Without a shred of hesitation God caused the earth to swallow Korah and other high-born members of the political nation. Repeatedly in the Old Testament, God cuts off members and groups of the political nation and condemns them: no promises save them, no covenant intervenes. In Jeremiah He clearly directs that the wealthy and important shall go into captivity and the impoverished and humble shall remain in the land. Jeremiah warns the king to obey God in this matter and he will do well, but the king tried to insist upon what God had done before, trying to push God to act as He had acted in the past and keep him and his dynasty in the land. This was disobedience and rebellion against God's Word, and the result was that King Zedekiah saw his sons put to death before his eyes; all the nobles of the land were also killed; and then the enemies of Zedekiah (the Chaldeans) put out his eyes, and he was taken away in chains as a rebel to live the rest of his life in a dungeon.

    Yet God also continually adds to the numbers of those under His covenant, bringing in people who are not members of Political Israel. Even in the book of Jeremiah, God swears protection and a covenant relationship to Ebedmelech the Ethiopian, a man not a member of political Israel. From the very building of the Ark of the Covenant, God included people not of Israeli bloodlines in His covenant: Rahab was brought in for her faith in God. Ruth was also added and numbered in the lineage of both David and the Lord Jesus. God Himself was a witness against David on behalf of the innocent and tragic Uriah the Hittite and defended his innocence even at cost to the political nation of Israel. Ittai the Gittite was commended forever for his faithfulness to what was right.

    The Lord Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and told them that God could raise Sons of Abraham from the dust (which God has done in bringing His favor to us, the Gentiles). The Lord Jesus also plainly declared to the religious leaders of his day, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." The Lord Jesus did not allow that there could be TWO chosen people of God. There is only one heir to the promises of God, the children of the promises. Paul writes in Romans 11 that the political nation of Israel has not received what it sought, but the elect received it. That's a pretty clear statement that the promises of God go to HIS ELECT, not a political entity. Furthermore, Paul defines those heirs to the promises of God as those who are grafted in as well as those born under the promises and believed in them. But he concludes that those who receive the promises of God do so by belief, and those who are cut off are cut off because of unbelief (vv. 20-23). But it has nothing to do with a political entity or racial bloodline.

    Paul defined the covenant by explaining in Romans chapter 9 that "For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:". He goes on to explain that the promises go to the children of Promise, that is, the people to whom God extends His mercy and favor. Paul writes, "They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." He concludes that being a child of the promise is a result of the divine favor of God (9:11.18). His example, of course, is Jacob and Esau. God chose Jacob out of God's mercy and good will to Jacob.

    A close reading Romans nine very clearly indicates that being included in the covenant was always dependent upon the good will of God, and not upon bloodlines. As then, so now. Political Israel has no claim to the ancient lands that were given as part of a covenant that required faithfulness to God. Political Israel has not demonstrated any faithfulness to God, not even according to Old Testament Law, nor modern Judaism, and certainly not to the only efficacious covenant left, the covenant of Jesus Christ. Political Israel is a secular state. It does not meet the requirements of any covenant, ever, to occupy the Land, and it has never known peace in that land.

    Jerri Massi
    http://www.jeriwho.net/lillypad2/2005/06/christian-zionism-cult-like-dangerous.html
     
  2. LadyEagle

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    Hate to tell ya, but yer theology is wrong.
     
  3. saturneptune

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    As to the first post, Israel is a good ally of the United States, God chose them to accomplish His purposes, and it is a good idea for the United States to support them. Beyond that, the rest of the post is baloney.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Hi there James,

    I am a partial preterist and support Israel because of political reasons, not eschatological reasons. Israel is not pure as the wind driven snow on everything, and there have been times when I have been critical of them and their policies. I don't, however, hold to the anti-semitic hatred of the Jews that you and Bassenco do. I think balance is a good thing, and it is quite obvious to me that you are just as lacking of it in your hatred for Israel and the Jews as are the John Hagee followers in the Pre-mil camp in their hatred of all Muslims and Palestinians.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #4 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2006
  5. Grasshopper

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    I agree with Joseph. Our support of Israel should be based on politics, not some false notion of eschatology. Israel is the only democracy in the region and should be supported for that reason. The problem is many within Israel are willing to negotiate land for peace, but American Zionist refuse to allow it. After all, Zionist must help God along with His fulfilling of prophecy.


    What I do follow, however, is the massive body of injustices and atrocities that many who profess Christ have actually defended and applauded against Palestinians, including Palestinians who profess Christ and have never wronged anybody nor taken up the mask of "terrorism."

    This I totally agree with. Christians, guided by their eschatology, have pretty much turned its back on Christians outside of Israel. I don’t remember the number, but the % of Christians outside of Israel has fallen dramatically in the last 40 years.


    Anyway, as in all matters, the confusion of Fundamentalists about thinking Israel has a "right" to return to its ancient homeland, no matter how many people must be made homeless and impoverished, is based, as always, on ignorance of the Bible.

    See Jerry Falwell and Tom DeLay.

    This, of course, has never been true, not even in the Old Testament. Occupying the Promised Land, in the Old Testament, was always contingent upon the nation's faithfulness to God.

    Bingo! You don't see this in dispie books.

    The Lord Jesus did not allow that there could be TWO chosen people of God. There is only one heir to the promises of God, the children of the promises.

    Agree. But appparently there are to some people.

    Political Israel has no claim to the ancient lands that were given as part of a covenant that required faithfulness to God. Political Israel has not demonstrated any faithfulness to God, not even according to Old Testament Law, nor modern Judaism, and certainly not to the only efficacious covenant left, the covenant of Jesus Christ. Political Israel is a secular state. It does not meet the requirements of any covenant, ever, to occupy the Land, and it has never known peace in that land.

    Must say I agree. I think what he is saying that Israel does not have a right to the land because of Biblical promises. With this I agree. I would also say modern Israel has as much right to the land today as anyone else.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Your wrong on your theology and on what fundementalists believe.
     
  7. Rex77

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    Ge 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Ever wondered why the first pronoun is plural and the second singular ?
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    I also support Israel for political reasons, and don't go for the Hagee baloney about Israel being the chosen people of God from where He will rule during the millenium. No millenium. When Christ comes it will be to judge the unsaved. Period.

    Second, James never said this was his theology. All he said was, 'good piece by Jerry Massi'. Remember he copied and pasted it.
     
  10. Rex77

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    -----------------------------
    Ever wondered why the first pronoun is plural and the second singular ?
    ---------------------------

    Yes God loves to bless.
     

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