Christians' addicted need our help

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Soulman, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. Soulman

    Soulman
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    Many of us when we became Christians brought alot of baggage. Many were addicted to drinking, smoking, pornography, etc. The Lord teaches that we are to come as we are. The problem is that many Christians sweep these things under the rug and never deal with them . We just hide them.

    As Churches grow this is an area that requires our attention if people are going to live victorious lives. We started an addictions program in our church and I was amazed at how many of our own church folks came to the meetings.

    Any experiences out there with success or failure in attempting to help these bretheren?
     
  2. FBCPastorsWife

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    There is an ongoing program of Reformers Unanimous at Franklin Road Baptist Church in Murfreesboro that has proven to be extremely successful. When finances allow at our church, we too plan to begin the program that has helped so many with their addictions.
     
  3. SaggyWoman

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    At our church, we have a weekly meeting of a 12 step Christian program called Celebrate Recovery. I think there is a website to get the material at www.celebraterecovery.com. I am amazed at the number of people we have helped.
     
  4. Soulman

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    FBCPastorsWife,
    I was assistant director of a Reformers Unanimous group in Nashua, NH for almost 2 years. Very effective program. If any one is interested in a program that is sweeping the nation, Contact: Steve Currington
    North Love Baptist Church,
    Chicago, Il.
    http://www.reformu.com/

    We had over 60 in attendance every week. Most from our own church. We can break the chains of addiction!
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    We ran a 12-step program for Recovering Pharisees at our IFB church. Amazed at people who last only a week or two and cannot handle the fact that they were raised Pharisee in our well-meaning churches.

    But much success. I'm still working on it, as I often relapse into my old judgmental self.
     
  6. Soulman

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    Dr. Bob,
    Don't know you well enough yet to know how to take you. Recovering Pharisees?

    Do you believe in recovery programs for Christians?
     
  7. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    We run a 'Reformers Unanimous' program in our church. Many Christians in our church have let go of addictions. Addictions don't have to be physical. They can be spiritual as well...

    The local judges often sentence people to attend, and graduate from, our program as part of their probation.

    Last month, a wayward teen was offered (by a non-Christian judge) the choice of attending our Christian school or being sent to a juvenile home.

    He chose to attend our school and has gotten saved and is very active in our church now.
     
  8. SaggyWoman

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    It is an over and over and over ministry. But, it isn't unlike what we do in church, period. We have a ministry that helps those in recovery. They have blended well into our church.
     
  9. Gina B

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    Good question.
    I can tell you one thing...most of us who struggled with these types of things (and/or continue to do so) are NOT helped by the fifty thousand sermons or testimonies on how the second they got saved God took away any of their desire to drink/smoke.
    I have a feeling most of them are either lying or weren't really addicted. Either that or it's clear that God gave them more of his spirit than the rest of us and that right there is simply discouraging.
    Also, if we admit that this didn't happen to us people question the genuineness of our faith, of our Christianity.
    So first step is to recognize that someone who was magically healed of addictive desires or that never struggled with it isn't a higher class Christian than the rest of us.
    Gina
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Good answer Gina! [​IMG]
     
  11. paidagogos

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    Addiction or sin? The problem is that the addiction model is one bought wholesale from the unbelieving secular psychologists. The ideas behind a 12-step program (recovery program) are simply not Biblical or Christian It is a secular, humanistic methodology dressed up in religious garb. The problem is that naïve Christians, who are wannabe psychologists, swallow any garbage without discernment. Like all the other psychobabble, this too will pass. Meanwhile, well-meaning Christians are buying and teaching a pack of lies.

    There are biblical answers to these problems—smoking, drunkenness, immorality, etc.—you know. The Bible alone is sufficient.

    I recommend your reading on this matter from a Biblical perspective. An excellent resource is Gary and Carol Almy’s book Addicted to Recovery. Gary and Carol are medical doctors. In addition to private practices, both teach in well-respected medical schools. It is interesting that Gary’s specialty is psychiatry. As a Christian and a psychiatrist, he exposes the recovery movement from the inside as a professional and an expert. Wm. Fairplay, who is also a medical doctor, has written another excellent work in this area. In fact, there are a number of excellent critiques of the 12-step methodology and the recovery fad written from a Biblical perspective. Jay Adams has also analyzed and written on this foolishness.
     
  12. paidagogos

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    Well, Dr. Bob, I know you are fully cognizant of the recovery model. As with AA, no one is ever really cured, only recovered. Once an alcoholic, one will always be an alcoholic although a non-drinking one. For the rest of his life, the AA alcoholic is always subject to slipping back into his drinking problem.

    The same is true of Pharisees. I suppose you will always be a Pharisee, although a non-judgmental one, and risk a relapse into a judgmental state. Once a Pharisee, always a Pharisee. :eek:

    I’ve found a better way. I’ve accepted myself; I’ve learned to love myself [​IMG] ; and I’m enjoying being a Pharisee! [​IMG] I'm judgmental about everyone and everything. [​IMG] My self-esteem is enormous! [​IMG] After all, it’s not my fault since I was made this way.

    Now, how's that for pop Christian psychology?
     
  13. paidagogos

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    Just where do you find the concepts of dependency and codependency in the Scriptures? I would like to know?
     
  14. paidagogos

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    Good question.
    I can tell you one thing...most of us who struggled with these types of things (and/or continue to do so) are NOT helped by the fifty thousand sermons or testimonies on how the second they got saved God took away any of their desire to drink/smoke.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps it has something to do with the attitude toward one’s sin. Since we don’t emphasize Biblical repentance and confession, not the Roman Catholic heresy, many people still love their sin at profession. Repentance is a turning away from (OT) and a change of mind (NT) about one’s sin. Confession is saying the same thing about one’s sin as God does—it is agreeing with God about one’s sin.

    Since the system that you are promoting totally depends on personal experience and testimonials, and it obviously does, how can you criticize or negate someone else’s experience? You can’t! Where did you get your feeling? From your own experience and different people have different experiences. You didn’t share their experience. Therefore, your opinion is based on nothing other than your own resentment of others and your own personal emotions.

    Did you know there may be Biblical grounds for this? I am not saying the desire is obliterated but I am saying that victory is possible. There are Biblical answers, not psychological ones, why some Christians struggle with sin after salvation.

    Again, we are comparing ourselves with ourselves. This is folly. On the other hand, the other Christian may have actually matured and grown quicker because of several factors.

    Do I detect a hint of spiritual jealousy here? It seems that you are more concerned about some being perceived as more spiritual than yourself. This of itself is immaturity.
     
  15. paidagogos

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    I would like to know what Scripture speaks of spiritual addictions. In fact, I would like to know where the concept of addictions is found in Scripture at all. Do you realize that addiction is the unbeliever’s answer to dominating sin? After all, it is a choice—one chooses to sin.

    So, you are into social reform. I remember when the old IFB’ers made a marked difference between social reformation and winning a soul to Christ. The problem may be there to bring a man to the end of himself in order that he will recognize his sinfulness and be saved. On the other hand, it is folly to try to solve the problem without evangelization. The man must be first evangelized and then his sinful behavior can be addressed. It is regeneration, not reformation, that we are seeking.

    Was this part of a recovery program? Praise God for salvation of a soul. However, is the change due to a 12-step program or the saving power of God?
     
  16. I Am Blessed 24

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    This teen may not have ever heard about the saving power of God had it not been for him being 'sentenced' to attend our church.

    As far as evangelizing - that is ALWAYS first and foremost at our church.

    We are using Reformers Unanimous as another tool to reach people for Christ.

    And if you believe Christians have no sin in their lives - you may be sincere, but you are sincerely wrong...
     
  17. paidagogos

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    This website is interesting but it gives little concrete information. It appears that they are using the word addiction without understanding its meaning or significance in the secular recovery movement. This makes for confusion. Furthermore, most of their material is standard discipleship materials with a lot of talk about addiction. Addiction, for these folks, seems have more connotation than denotation. I really don’t think they understand how psychologists and others use the term.

    The most disturbing thing is that experience seems to be valued as much as Scripture. There is no strong Biblical exposition or exegesis here. The Ten Life Principles, that they say is the basis of their program, are theologically and Biblically weak. They are commonplace presuppositions and truisms. It’s the hype that drives the show.

    I would appreciate anyone providing answers in this context to the following:
    1. What is their definition of addiction?
    2. What Scriptures do they use in support of their definition of addiction?
    3. Where in Scripture does it instruct us how to deal with addiction?
    4. Other than spouting a few Bible verses, how is this model different from the secular recovery models?
    5. Why do we need to adopt a secular model of addiction to deal with sinners who are dominated by habitual sin? Is not the Bible sufficient?

    Thank you.
     
  18. paidagogos

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    I seem to remember that Jesus said something about going out in the highways and byways. Where's the outreach? It is good that he did attend your church and was saved but I am leary of judges ordering it. One may order me to attend a mosque.

    Amen! Praise God!

    Is it a Biblical tool? How so? This same type of reasoning has been used in compromise evangelism that really didn’t win people to Christ and turned many aside into heretical religions (i.e. Roman Catholicism). The problem occurs when the method takes precedence over the message.

    Many Christians have the wrong view of evangelism. They are results oriented. The number of professions, whether sincere or not we cannot tell, reaped by methods is the bottom line. Any method is legit as long as it brings professions. The problem is that God alone saves. He must convict and draw by His Holy Spirit. Many professions, I fear, are the result of slick salesmanship rather than true spiritual regeneration by the Holy Spirit. God has never commanded us to produce results. We try to produce the results, which is exactly what we get--man-made converts. God has mandated that we be faithful witnesses. Salvation is the work of God, not man. (cf. I Corinthians 3)

    Souls are still being saved without the compromise methods.

    Nope, you're wrong. I didn't say this. You read your own ideas into my post. Read carefully! No one, even subsequent to salvation, is sinless. We can, however, have victory over life-dominating sins.
     
  19. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    :mad: :( Okay ya'll...this subject hits close to home so I gotta weigh in.I have a personal struggle with tobacco addiction that goes all the way back to my high school years and I'm 50 now.I'm not into the"psychobabble" or "self-esteem" heresy and I do believe that smoking IS primarily SIN.....BUT...sin or not(and it is)it is still a genuine ADDICTION that entraps many people(MYSELF included)and is terribly difficult to give up whether you are SAVED....or not(and I AM)When I first got saved back in 1977 I had smoked for nearly 12 years and was a pack and a halfer at that point.I struggled mightily to give them up KNOWING that they couldn't be pleasing to the Lord but had no success until I spent nearly a full year living and working at Bro.Lester Roloff's ministry in Texas back in 1980.It was fairly easy to give them up there since for nearly 5 of those months I literally had no access to them.After returning to S.C. I set about to live for the Lord and did for the better part of 10 years(without smoking)but got involved in a bad marriage that ended in divorce after 3 years leaving me fairly devastated spiritually and otherwise(she divorced me...but that's another subject).I won't go into all the details in public but after a time...in utter defeat and discouragement I fell away from the Lord and quit church and for more than a few years wallowed in defeat all the while knowing that my only hope was in the Lord.During those years I fell back into my old addiction.Within one week of lighting up the 1st one I was smoking TWO PACKS a day and have since tried everything to quit without success.Now I know there are going to be some of you PHARISEES that will consign me to the pit as you question my faith and whether or not I was truly ever BORN AGAIN in the first place just because I fell out of fellowship(not to mention smoking again).Well....phooey on you...I KNOW IN WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED and I know the Lord Jesus gave Himself for me on Calvary's cross.Indeed...I have questioned my own faith many times just due to this and other sins I have struggled with so please don't go there.All that said...let me move on to the "here and now".
    I am involved and engaged with a wonderful Christian woman who incidentally was the one responsible for me being back in church as of last January.We are engaged to be married.I won't debate with anyone whether that is right or wrong...I have peace with God about it after much prayer and study of His Word.BUT...not only has the Lord been dealing with me about this bad habit/sin I have...but she declared that she could not and would not marry me until and unless I quit because beside any other reasons she simply can't tolerate tobacco smoke for physical reasons.I have COMMITTED to quit as of January 1st this coming.The war is on because this time I don't have the luxury or option of going somewhere where I can't get to a cigarette for an extended time.Simply put....God is gonna have to help me and deliver me from this curse if I'm ever to be free of it.I believe(I REALLY DO)in a miracle working God who honors and helps those who love Him and want to do right(and I do).People...please...PLEASE pray for me.Some of those who have never struggled with any kind of addiction will NOT understand....but those of you who do....please pray that God will help me.Frankly...the main reason to quit is NOT so I can get married...that's just incidental.The main reason to quit is that these things dishonor the Lord that bought me and His temple(my body)....and the fact that to any lost man it is kind of hard to believe the testimony of anybody that smells like an ashtray.I can say from personal experience that I have shied away from personal soulwinning many times because it is hard to tell someone how much I love Jesus while either smoking in front of them or smelling like I do.For now...the best I can do is leave tracts lying around as many places as possible.I don't want to bring reproach to my Lord so I shy away from talking directly to many people.I look forward to being able to testify to the victory over this habit that MUST COME.Pray.....just pray!

    [​IMG] Bro.Greg [​IMG]
     
  20. paidagogos

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    After visiting the website, my assessment is that the program is a spinoff of a secular psychological fad (i.e. the Recovery Movement). Furthermore, it is theologically shallow and Biblically unfounded. Finally, there is a total naivety about recovery, addiction, etc.

    Can you please help me with the following questions in regard to this program?
    1. What is addiction? How is addiction different from what the Bible calls sin?
    2. Where does Scripture address this concept?
    3. What is the Biblical basis of this program?
    4. Other than quoting Bible verses out of context for motivational purposes, what is the program’s claim to being called Christian?
    5. How is this program different from secular 12-step programs?

    Thank you.
     

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