Christians' addicted need our help

Greg:

You will be in my prayers.

Smoking is an addiction that is harder to break than a cocaine habit.

Bless you for being so open and thank you for sharing!

§ue

 

Well now, what are you doing here? Building a straw man? Who has said that smoking condemns a man to Hell? It bothers me when folks take an issue to the extreme to try and boost their argument. If your argument is good, let it stand on its own two feet.

Furthermore, condemning someone’s sin is not being a Pharisee. Christ Himself condemned sin. So did John the Baptist, Peter, James, and the Apostle John. Again, this is just trying to boost your case.

My posts say that smoking is sin, not addiction. You can have victory over it. The whole addiction model is based on false premises of dependency and codependency. It involves others being responsible for your sin. Also, it theorizes that your dependency or addiction is not your fault (i.e. result of your own actions and choices) but it is the result of some unmet need in your life.

I don’t think Bro. Lester saw it as addiction but he called it sin. Sin binds and enslaves. Sin can become life-dominating but you are still responsible for having made the choice. The Bible has the answer to your problem if you will read and heed. There is a Biblical approach without the secular psychobabble. Find a good Biblical counselor who believes the Word of God instead of Adler, Maslow & co.

 

Let me start off this post by saying thank you to you Sue...I appreciate your concern and prayers very much.
Now...Paid...I got your message and I do appreciate your concern and would covet your prayers as well.You seem like a pretty smart guy considering the depth you display in your critique of some of the programs that are out there.I assure you that I have little or no confidence in the so-called christian psychological approach that many seem to flock to these days and NO regard for the gospel of self-esteem being preached(sadly)in many of our churches.There is NOTHING to love in our flesh or our old man.It is deceitfully wicked with NO redeeming value of its own.You are absolutely correct that Bro.Roloff called sin SIN and while I was down there in 1980 the "program" was BIBLE,BIBLE,BIBLE...good hard work,and good healthy homegrown food...and a locked gate.What I mean by that is that once I set foot in the place I knew I couldn't get off-campus for a smoke.I had no problem with that...I knew that going in and I viewed it as somewhat of a sabbatical retreat that allowed me time to come aside before I "came apart".Under those conditions quitting was relatively easy.I was very thankful to have that opportunity at the time and tried to take full advantage of it.But...that was then...and this is now...and now I live and work around smokers,my family(unsaved)smokes,every store I go in sells them,every (or most) eatery I go in has people smoking in them.I'm addicted and they are all around me much of the time and when they aren't and I'm by myself I still have this tremendous urge to smoke.By the way....in case you want to know,my personal definition of "addiction" is the word bondage...which is just a longer word for SIN...and yes...I am in a struggle with my flesh.I do believe what I think in regards to all this is biblical....and I do believe the answer will be found in the Word of God.Just pray that God will impart to me the faith,power,and grace to overcome this and get the victory I must have.As for the 10 steppers and the 12 steppers and all that stuff I don't know.....but I'm not gonna be too harsh on them cause they are at least trying to address the problem while many churches do absolutely NOTHING to help anyone get victory.We do have some people in my church that care and pray regularly for the needs of people but even mine doesn't do as much as I'd like to see.WHEN I get the victory over this I may try to coordinate starting something in my own church....and yes...it WILL be BIBLE-BASED...NOT PSYCHO-Oriented.As for the "pharisee" comment in my post I have over the years run into a lot of legalist types here in the Greenville,SC area that seem to be quick to judge and condemn but offer no particular help or compassion to people needing some guidance and support.It is a known(sad)fact that fundamentalists (and I count myself as one in principle)have an annoying tendency to "shoot their wounded"...or even worse...IGNORE them...which was what happened to me.When I fell out of church years ago not ONE single soul even so much as called me to find out what was wrong.That was awful.....BUT...GET THIS....I KNOW that I can't use that as an EXCUSE for my own SIN.Thanks for your advise...I do appreciate it and I am willing to listen and learn.Mostly I'd just appreciate your prayers.

Bro.Greg

 

AMEN Soulman!!! Preach it!

 

You said, “It is always the person that never smoked, drank or drugged that says it is just plain sin and not an addiction.” This is absolutely not true! You’re building a straw man and it won’t work. Any number of former druggies, drunks, and smokers can be found who will say their sin was plain sin. Did I smoke, drink, etc.? It’s none of your business since my sins are forgiven and under the Blood of Christ. I’ll not enter this discussion with you—it is irrelevant and immaterial.

You say that Reformers Unanimous works. This seems to be the sole basis of your whole argument. So what? AA and all the other 12-step recovery programs claim to work too. As a researcher, we recognize something called the “halo effect.” This is a phenomenon that programs seem to work because the people are enthusiastic and believe in them. With time, this disappears and people begin looking for another program in answer to their problems. Furthermore, upon doing the statistics, you find that about 1/3 of the druggies and drunks change their behavior without any recovery program whatsoever. Additionally, there is a certain relapse rate from these programs. Can you show objective data that Reformers Unanimous does any better over a 5 year period?

Are you familiar with the Roloff Evangelistic Enterprises in Corpus Christi, TX? Under Roloff, who spurned any addiction theories and called it sin, many drunks and druggies found Christ as Saviour and deliverance from the bondage of their sin. Roloff reported something like a 90% “cure” rate. Can any 12-step program match this? On the other hand, we are more concerned about a program being Biblical than a supposed cure rate.

You say that I’m uninformed. Well, you’ve missed the boat there again! Biochemistry and psychology are my fields. I think that I know the literature of both much better than you seem to know. I did graduate work and taught biochemistry at a major research university. I have studied under Jay Adams and I teach a course in Psychology and Biblical Counseling. Additionally, I am well versed in secular psychological and am trained in psychometrics. After completing graduate course work, I did an internship under Dr. John Richards at a major state university. I’ve worked in a rescue mission, worked to establish a home for drunks and druggies, and taught in a foster care setting. Also, I’ve done counseling for a couple of decades. I am thoroughly familiar with current psychological literature and theories. Therefore, I think that I am qualified to offer a rational, intelligent opinion. Can you say the same? I can assure you that there is no hard scientific evidence supporting your position. I recommend that you read The Useful Lie by William Fairplay, a Christian medical doctor. In addition, you should read 12-Steps to Destruction by Martin and Deidre Bobgan. The Drs. Almy’s book Addicted to Recovery would be another good resource for you. Gary Almy is a Christian psychiatrist who exposes the whole recovery movement for what it is—a fraud. In sum, I believe you are ill-informed of what you have accepted and believed.

If you want to read the aforementioned books, which will serve as an introduction, I will continue to discuss this issue with you when you understand the issues and can intelligently debate them. Otherwise, there is not time and space here to educate you.

Thank you.

 

Yes I am - quite well.

No one is arguing this point, but not everyone gets delivered of their bondages immediately upon being saved. If they did, Paul would not have had a constant fight with his flesh/spirit.

That is while they were still locked up at one of his homes.

Many of them were FORCED to accept Jesus as Lord and denounce their addictions as sin. And, of course, they had a high 'cure' rate while they were under his roof because their addictions were not available to them.

The "cure" rate dropped dramatically once they were released. And yes, I know this to be a fact...

What people do under our program is come willingly to Christ and willingly surrender their addictions/sins to Christ.

They are not forced to do anything. Therefore, the 'cure' rate is higher because they stay 'cured'.

 

I think the whole "recovering" mindset is unbiblical jargon. Paul informed us that Christians "were" some of those things, but aren't any longer. A Christian is not a recovering alcoholic or drug addict or adulterer. They are a "used to be but now changed." I think we should help those who are enslaved to sin, but we need to do it biblically.

In fact, tonight I am finishing a 7 week Bible study on an introduction to helping people change biblically. It is an emphasis we desperately need in our churhces, but we must be biblical.

I see several have mentioned these 12 step deals. Ed Welch in Blame It On the Brain has a great little section on AA that shows the fallacies of it. That is a book well worth reading.

 

Our church has the Reformer's Unanimous (RU)and it has not taken off as well as we thought it would. We peaked at 20, but now have about 10 every Friday. We just recently sent one female to the in-house program in Rockford. I work in this ministry and it is great, but very emotionally draining at times. I don't think we are properly trained/prepared for what we face on any given night.

Aloha.

 

Dear Bro.Greg, Thank you for being so honest!!!I had quit smoking for 18 years. I to went threw a time of divorce,rejection from my church family ( even tho I did not want the divorce and had grounds)then I back slid into a selfish life.I have been a non smoker now for 2 years. I wanted to quit but do not know if I really would have if my income did not go down to low to aford them. I do not condem or judge anyone who smokes because I am still a sinner. A sin is a sin, and we are all still sinners. I now over eat. I eat the same amount I have for years but now due to disabilities, and medications, I can not exercise and keep gaining wieght. You are in my prayers! The unsaved smoker might listen to you instead of a non smoker because they will not think you are judgeing them. This is not an excuse to smoke but takes away your excuse to not witness. I have 2 friends whose husband's smoked,one is with the Lord now, he never got involved in church because of his smoking, he was a wonderful man who voleenteered for red cross and touched alot of lives, the other one stops and starts smoking alot, but he does not let it keep him from being very involved in church. The people who really know him do not judge him because they are to buesy enjoying his wonderful work for the Lord in many areas.Is bad spelling a sin? Lord help me!

 

Soulman....now you calm down a bit there brother....ya got your blood pressure way off the scale!I will say to you and all those that have offered support and encouragement a big huge thank you.Keep PRAYING!My self-imposed quit date(Jan.1) is looming up on me and this week has consisted of nothing but problems and outright attacks that I have been through.I know the devil or his little buddies are trying to drain my strength and resolve.I've had every form of mental and emotional challenge imaginable and have found even the most basic prayer hard to do.Just pray that the Holy Spirit will instill some inner strength in me to sustain me in this battle.
Sue...I was at Bro.Roloff's homes in 1980 and I'm inclined to agree with the assessment about people falling away after they leave...but the same could be said about anyone who gets away from ANY church or fellowship if they haven't gotten firmly grounded in the faith.I didn't agree with everything I saw there but I do believe Bro.Roloff had a genuine heart of love for the people he felt called of God to help.I still love to hear that man preach and they carry his show on our local radio station at 7am every morning just as I'm hitting the road for work.I've always felt somewhat that I left too soon to go back home...the result was that I got involved in a bad marriage that probably should have never happened but that God nonetheless permitted.The end result now is that I have NO DOUBT how badly I need the Lord to truly be my LORD.I guess God uses a variety of things to get the attention of His children,don't ya think? Thanks for your prayers and I'll try to remember to pray for you as well.
Now....PAID...I have no problem with the fact that you seem to be very educated and knowledgeable.....BUT....all the credentials and education..christian or secular....mean absolutely NOTHING if you don't have the humility and Christ-like love to balance it out.I assume you didn't mean to(at least I hope not) but some of your posts above were downright haughty.We must all seek to have the wisdom of God that we may properly instruct others in NEED...but it serves no one to bludgeon others over the head with knowledge.Pride is a terrible thing.Sin is SIN...and we should call it what it is....and I do when I'm aware of it.Let's ALL try to lift each other up as brothers and sisters in Christ and be humble with the awareness that...but for the grace of God we'd ALL be in a BIG mess.

In Christ,Greg Sr.

Keep prayin ya'll!

 

My husband and I are involved in a spiritual boot camp Ministry for men with drug and alcohol addictions. It is called John 3:16 Ministry.It is a volunteer 6 month to a year program.It has been open for nearly 2 years and we have seen so many lives changed and so many miracles performed in the lives of these men and their families.We have a very serious drug problem in this area.

Yes we have some that go back into the world and try their old ways again, but we focus mostly on those that give their lives to Jesus and serve him after they leave.

My brother-in-law had a vision for this Ministry and gave up all he had to start this. The Ministry now has a beautiful camp on 32 acres that is maintained by the men. We also have 26 churches in the area that support the Ministry and a large number of indiviuals. The men give back by going out in the community and helping the elderly and etc.They also have 2 hours bible study each day and attend church functions all through the week.

We praise the Lord that he chose us to work in such a powerful Ministry.We love them to Jesus.

We teach them that they need to have a home church when they leave the Ministry, because we feel like the church needs to disciple these men and show them love. Please pray for us as we serve the Lord......Your Sister in Christ, Becky

 

Becky...God bless you sister and thank God for the wonderful ministry you describe.I have a VERY soft place in my heart for works such as these and hope maybe someday God may give me and active role in something similar.I'll be praying for you and the one's you help.By the way...do you folks have a website?If you do then PLEASE...by all means post a link to it.

By the way ya'll...pray for me...when I go to bed tonight(soon!)then tomorrow is a new year and a new day...and my own personal "stop smoking"effort begins.Pray that God would give me grace and power to beat this terrible habit/sin.I want to be free of this bondage.I am liberating my house of all cigarettes and ashtrays before I go to bed.Ask that the Lord would increase my faith to meet the task at hand.

God Bless You....Greg Sr.
Phil.4:13!

 

I think that all of us need to be honest with God and ourselves...

A good start would be to introduce yourself in the following manner:

"Hi, My name is _______ and I am a recovering sinner, pray for me"


God Bless

 

Sorry Greg, we don't have a web site but hopefully we will in the future. It is an awesome Ministry.

I quit smoking 9 years ago, it wasn't easy but it was one of the best choices I have ever made....Praise The Lord !! You can do it if your sincere about wanting to quit....Becky