Christians and homosexual?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by freeatlast, Mar 21, 2004.

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Christians and homosexual?

  1. The person should be put out of the church

    59.6%
  2. The person should be allowed to attend but not to serve

    21.1%
  3. The person is not a Christain

    19.3%
  4. Yes a person can be a Christian and homosexual

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Many today seem to be extreemly confused about God's plan for salvation and what it takes to get saved. " For by grace you are saved through faith." There also seems to be great confussion about the problem os sin in a persons life who cliaims salvation. Because of this we are seeing an increasing number of churches and even denominations accepting certain lifestyles such as homosexuality as acceptable for church service. So can a person be a Christian and be a homosexual? And what should be done with those who claim to be saved and want to attend or serve in church?
     
  2. Helen

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    Salvation is evidenced by a changed heart. A person's actions and words proceed from the heart, which is the reason James said that you can claim your faith, but he would show his faith by what he did. A Christian is a follower of Christ, a worshiper of Him.

    If a repentant homosexual practicer is a new Christian, I can understand the confusion in the person's mind along with that great sense of freedom. I can understand the lonliness for old companions which might end up in slipping once or twice. But one of the evidences of a changed heart is deep repentance for sins. If the person is continuing in that lifestyle then he needs to be put out of the church. We may doubt his salvation, but we never dare judge him, himself. However we must judge the actions and operate accordingly.

    It may be that there is a genetic component to homosexuality, but that is not the point at all. There is a genetic component to a lot of 'born in' bad traits. If not actually genetic, then certainly simply the personal expression of sin nature. Nevertheless, one can choose to nurture anger or control it. One can choose to nurture a homosexual tendency or control it. In the same way one can choose to work with and train artistic talent or bury it.

    We have real choices. We are powerless to act upon some of our choices, however, until Christ is in our hearts, living in us, as He promised He would do with believers.

    Christ blessed a marriage between a man and a woman at Cana. He referred to Adam and Eve as "in the beginning" and in reference to the sanctity of marriage. As some wag put it, His plan was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

    Following Christ means following His pattern and His plan. The church is the Bride of Christ, not another groom. There is NO evidence for homosexuality being accepted by God and plenty of evidence against it in the Bible. So while we are to follow God's directions regarding unrepentant sinners and put them out of fellowship, we also must recognize that God knows and judges the heart, and we daren't presume to do so.

    So should the person be truly repentant and show a change in lifestyle, he or she should be welcomed back into fellowship as the prodigal son was welcomed back by his father.
     
  3. Kathy

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    I'm just curious, smoking is a sin because it causes harm to the body (which is God's temple)...why don't we put sinning smokers out of the church? They keep doing it over and over and over again...just trying to understand...

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  4. Helen

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    Kathy, I think God has already defined sin. There are a lot of things that are bad for our bodies, but that does not make them sins.

    Obnoxious, yes.
    Sin, no.

    The exception here that I can think of for smoking is the parent or sibling that KNOWS his or her second-hand smoke is damaging others in the household -- in this case it is not loving others as one loves oneself. Still, if we are to start judging this sort of thing, who would there be left to attend church?

    It's probably best to stick with the biblical admonitions. One of the things that made Christ furious (see Matthew 23), was the legalistic judging and adding to the Law that the Pharisees and teachers of the law were concerned with.
     
  5. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Kathy,
    Let me be upfront here. I hear this type of rebutal all the time from those who really do not want to follow the word of God. They are not really confused at all, but want to try and get support from others to also disobey. They try and point to some so called lessor sin to justiufy why we should not follow church disciplin or deal with sin in the church. I pray you are not one of them since it comes with a great price.
    The bible does not teach what you have said. The Lord has given us His word and sadly many have added to it. Smoking is sin IF the person cannot do it in faith,(Romans 14:23) but not because it might harm the body.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Le tme add this. The bible already has spoken on these issues. All thta is left is if we accept the word of God or not. As for a person being a practicing homosexual and saved, the answer is no it is not possible according to scripture, but it is not limited to homosexuality. Any person who practices sin is lost according to scripture. The problem is thta many are deceived about this even when scripture wars us not to be.

    9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[1] nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Here is the way I see it:

    1. They are not Christians and need Jesus to save them.

    2. They should be allowed to attend but not seve in Church. As long as they are not going around spreading false doctrines and creating confusion among the fellowship, they should be allowed to attend so that the Word of God might pierce their hearts and bring them to repentance.

    3. If they go beyond merely claiming to be a homosexual and start endorsing it to the congregation, spreading false teachings, causing confusion among the fellowship, then they should be confronted in love and ask to repent as is Biblical, first one on one, then with another brother, and then if all else fails, they should be put out of the Church until such time as they are ready to repent. We should pray for God to soften their hearts and bring them to repentance and salvation.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. Helen

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    Joseph, if I knew there were practicing homosexuals in the church I was attending, I would no longer attend. The youth need that influence like a hole in the head. Church is not an outreach organization -- or at least that is not what it is supposed to be. It is a place for Christians to gather together for instruction, prayer, and fellowship.

    One does not have to speak to endorse one's lifestyle. One merely has to live it.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Helen,

    Can you show me from the Bible where it says that this is what we are to do? Does the Bible say to kick all sinners out of your Church so as to not corrupt the minds of our perfect little children by there very presence. Again, if the person begins messing with the kids, or spreading false doctrines, then they will have to go. But, as long as they keep their sin to themselves and do not spread it to others, I say, let them stay and listen to the Word of God which can convict them of their sin and bring them to their knees in repentance. Your way condemns all homosexuals to Hell with no hope from Jesus Christ or his Church. If only Jesus had been as judgmental and totally void of compassion as you are, our Churches would be full of pharisees today. I wonder how Jesus would have treated the prostitute had she come to his place of worship. With scorn? Or with compassion? What do you think Helen?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Joseph
    I agree with you. If they are not open and openly rebellious about it then pray that they come and get saved. The church should be the one place that they can come and be shown love while lost with hopes of their conversion. They should not be alowed to serve in any way shape or form. This is why it is very important to know who is serving and what they believe and how they live.
     
  11. dawna

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    I agree with you joseph [​IMG]
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Principle: The church is designed 100% for SAINTS, not unregenerate sinners. It is a place of teaching, fellowship, serving God.

    Sadly today we think of it as a place of evangelism, so open the doors and make it friendly for unsaved. Now, obviously, an occasional unsaved person may be in our fellowship. Why? Maybe curious.

    Not NT example of unsaved in a church (except a cryptic reference to Corinth that says "if an unbeliever sees the tongues mess they will be repulsed" -- which they are). No other unsaved in church. We have really screwed up the concept of the local church and change the purpose of the church into some sort of evangelism place. Sad.
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Dr. Bob,

    Is there a Biblical example of not allowing the unsaved in the Church?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    Purpose of Church? (always for believers. Never an "evangelistic" appeal, altar call, etc)

    Practice of Church? (outlined in Acts/Epistles and NO indication of unsaved there)

    I am befuddled to consider WHY we changed the prupose and practice from NT to the modern system.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Dr. Bob,

    Is there a Biblical example of not allowing the unsaved in the Church? Please don't argue from silence as we know that is a weak argument. Please show me where the Bible explicitly says that only the saved may come to Church.

    Thank you,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Started a new thread, Jbot. And the argument is NOT from "silence". 50+ references to the NT church function and NO reference to unsaved being there. THAT is a strong case in itself.

    But let's not hijack this thread. We need to let a good discussion on sodomites/lesbians and other perversions go the course here on the BB!
     
  17. Watchman

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    For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. Romans 1:26a
    Back on topic: Christians and homosexual?
    Can those that God gave up to vile passions, be Christians? Not scriptually. Repentence is vital to be a Christian. What is repentence but a 180 degree turn around in regards to sin: My way is wrong, God's way is right. What you have now is those, in this lifestyle, who have no desire to leave this lifestyle and, worse than that, try to make it sound like God approves somehow. That is changing the image of God into a lie.
    But let's not just single out homosexuals here.
    Can you be a Christian and be involved with child porography, bank robber, a hitman for the mob? Is, "But that is all I have ever known", an excuse acceptable to God?
     
  18. mlg1019

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    I believe sin is sin no matter how great or small. Let me get this right, if you are gay you must be unsaved? I don't agree with homosexuality at all, but I don't think that being gay automatically rules you out from being a Christian. I sin every day and God forgives me. Why wouldn't God forgive homosexuals? I'm a little confused here. Can someone answer that?
     
  19. Servent

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    1Cor 6:9&10 read these verses,if these people cannot inherit the kingdom then why would you think the are saved.
     
  20. onestand

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    If we are going so far as to say do not allow homosexuals to attend church, I believe we should close the doors to every church because we have missed the whole reason God placed us on earth to share Jesus. In case we haven't noticed not one of us is without sin, to single homosexuals out and say no, can't be here and hear the word of God is just wrong but sadly enough some churches do that.
     

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