Christians and savings

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, May 30, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Should Christians have savings and retirement accounts based on the bible or are such things a lack of faith? If we are to have savings and retirement accounts based on scripture how do we determine when we have enough?
     
  2. saturneptune

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    No, I think we should squander every penny while we are able to work to give us the opportunity to exercise faiith in retirement. Anything else would be hiding behind sin.
     
  3. Paul3144

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    Remember, if you attempt to hide behind your sinful savings account, you will burn forever!!!
     
  4. InTheLight

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    Matt 6:28a "And why take ye thought for raiment?"
    Romans 14:23b "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
     
  5. preachinjesus

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    This misunderstands faith. Also, I believe wisdom and being a wise steward are key points.

    As for "enough" that is hard to know. I can't imagine 1,000,000 will be the same in 30 years it is today.
     
  6. agedman

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    Freeatlast,

    I am grateful that you have posted this thread. I was thinking about the same type of thread, but hadn't considered how to word it.

    There are two items to consider: First is attitude out of motivation, the second is ultimate authority.

    Attitude out of motivation:

    There was a time when My Bride and I were thread poor and a single penny rich. It was all of Christ that we made it through the days. Occasionally, we would receive a financial gift from someone who would write saying that they were impressed of the Lord to send a bit our way.

    As the Lord granted us financial gain, we also have been often impressed into giving. Giving that we take no glory and quietly do unto the Lord for His honor and praise.

    We are by no means rich, and by no means do we rely on the gain for our ultimate security, however it remains that we are still impressed to give. In that example I think is part of the answer to your good questions.

    If one saves with no thought other than financial security in the future, then they are like the man whose soul was called when he had filled his barns and expected to live the life of ease.

    If one saves and gains with the motivation of working for the good and ease of others' needs, even in when death comes, the final giving will not be a choice made by government; the choice will be by predetermined by the last will and testament - which will bring that which God blessed as financial gain and apply it to further the work of the gospel. It follows that the wealth attained and spent is unto righteousness.

    Ultimate authority:

    Do I think that retirement savings or other savings are bad? No

    If such were all taken away tomorrow (as they might be with this world system) I would be no less ultimately blessed by my Father, for He ultimately has and will provide all.

    We are not to squander the blessings of God, for He requires good stewardship.

    But ultimately God is in charge. And if it pleases Him that the world economies collapse and people live hand to mouth, that is His business.

    It is one thing for the foolishness of man to squander their living, fall into debt and be sold into slavery being shackled by the world system.

    It is another for a believer to place ultimate trust into the providence of God's provision of meal in the drought.

    Too many believers are slaves in economic shackles, and will despair when tested in this area. Some may even fall away and join to the Laodiceans who contend that wealth and prosperity were signs of righteousness.
     
    #6 agedman, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2012
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Well, let’s look at it like this. From two perspectives. You could certainly go the Bible in defense of NOT saving money.


    “Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!' Luke 12:24

    “Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?” Job 38:41

    However, it’s MHO that these verses and others like it are speaking of when a person is – due to unfortunate circumstances – without viable means of support and literally cannot provide for themselves or their family. We should trust God immensely here and exercise our faith in times like these. And when God does miraculously provide – we should give Him the glory for it and His provision should be part of our testimony about Him.


    For example. Here’s a true story about George Mueller. You all have probably heard it.



    Yet, on the other hand, we could also go to the Bible in defense of absolutely saving our resources and making provisions for them to multiply.

    "Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow." Proverbs 13:11

    "In the house of the wise are stoeres of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has." Proverbs 21:20

    "A good man leaves an inheritance for his children’s children, but a sinner’s wealth is stored up for the righteous." Proverbs 13:22

    Again, IMHO, these verse show that saving – in and of itself – is not a bad thing. But, to me, and I got this from someone else as I did the above verses - "it isn’t about savings vs. spending, but more about saving for the sake of giving and spending without squandering."

    One more example and I am finished.

    I have substantial savings and investments. Because I’m so smart? Heavens, no. It’s because God has blessed me with (next year) having had the opportunity to work for 30 years. He gets the credit for it all. It’s also because I’ve had no children to buy braces for and to buy cars for and clothes and food for. I’ve had no spouse to divide my resources with and for.

    It’s just me. Somedays that’s good and somedays it’s pretty crappy.

    But it is what it is.

    I’m a saver, but not a hoarder. I give when the Lord directs me to and do it gladly. I’m also a spender, but not a squanderer. I believe that squandering money is a sin.

    I have two parents who are getting to be a little feeble. They are the ones who taught me what to do with my money. My mother taught me how to save, manage, and make it increase. My father taught me the spiritual principles of giving in the Name of Jesus.

    If they were to need any of my money, they could have and they know it. I also have mentally handicapped brother who receives SSI. It isn’t much what he gets. I feel grateful to the Lord knowing that if he outlives me that my money could be used for him to have a quality life. That money in the bank that’s in my name, but was a gift from the Lord as was my job, really isn’t mine.

    If I am the last to go in my family, I will make provisions for the money to go where the Lord deems it necessary.

    I’m a saver. And I’m a saver who saves by faith knowing that God is giving me a responsibility and I must obey Him and spend it when the Lord and how the Lord tells me too.
     
    #7 Scarlett O., May 30, 2012
    Last edited: May 30, 2012
  8. agedman

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    Here the word of my god - give unto me and I will gladly bless you with abundant prayer cloths and oils. The god has granted me a great ministry which is evident by much houses and land which is relying upon you for support and upon your donations. Don't squander your wealth; give it to me to squander it. I can do a better job putting it into radio, tv, houses and land than you.


    :praying:

    :type:
     
  9. freeatlast

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    agedman and scarlett I am in agreement with your evaluation on this. I think it would be a lack of faith and closer to tempting the Lord if we do not seek to have the ability to care for ourselves in our older years as well as to be able to meet the needs of normal emergencies that crop up during our working years.
    I have seen a many a Christian who sacrifice the future for the immediate and I have also seen many who seek to lay up so much for the future that they would clearly be considered as practicing hording. Often times I hear someone say I am not interested in being rich, “just comfortable” so as to cover their hording and lack of faith. The truth is being confortable is being rich since the poor are not comfortable.
    While being rich is not a sin how we try to cover the fact we are to seem pious or what we are really seeking is.
    Believers in Christ should live not simply within their means, but below it so as to be able to do the work of the Lord through giving while they also lay up for the future when they cannot work. In doing so I believe they show faith and wisdom.
     
  10. Bobby Hamilton

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    Well said.
     
  11. InTheLight

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    Hoarding is sometimes considered an obsessive compulsive behavior. Lack of faith is a sin. So once again, we are being asked to believe that a behavior problem is really a sin and is being covered up. Looks like we are back to the mental illness stuff again.

    In your world does a majority of people label their sin something else (mental illness, hoarding, etc.) in order to cover it?
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Good topic and good thoughts. Remember to be "kind" when expressing opinions that vary.

    And when such are expressed, be kind in whining to the moderators. You start a controversial topic, you better stand the heat generated.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    God gave us the ability to earn a living, a good mind, skills, etc. The idea of spending money while working and having nothing for retirement is ridiculous. First of all, if you have no money for retirement, chances are very good you did not manage that was given to you. Who knows, do you have nothing at retirement because of faith at reitrement, or because you had a lavish life style all those years?

    The first thing that should come out of a paycheck is tithe and offerings, then something to set aside. Live off the rest. Having money to live off of supplied by you has nothing to do with a lack of faith. If you believe that, then give up your Social Security when it comes time to apply. My guess is all those in this thread bragging about their faith, if they were really with nothing at retirement, their faith would turn into Social Security payments and whatever other help you could get from others.

    What Biblical principle could possibly be twisted to say live off others when God gave you the ability to provide for yourself? The Lord gave everyone a brain, use it.
     
    #13 saturneptune, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2012
  14. Yeshua1

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    Think that the Lord makes it clear in His word that prudent to put aside monies left over , as we need to be diligent in being good stewards of his blessings to us...

    As godly people leave a financially inheritance unto their families, as the Lord will financially prosper all who apply His biblical principles, its just his call as to how much extra!
     
  15. Sapper Woody

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    Wow. That's really all I have to say about that stretch.

    In this world, a majority of people label their sin something else in order to cover it. I am not saying that mental illness is sin. But I am saying that if someone thought something was a sin, they wouldn't do it, or at least would feel bad about it. The majority of people who sin either deny that it is sin, or justify it somehow.

    Your post was a horrible attempt at trolling, and showed that you are more concerned with arguing with FAL than you are with discussing the topic at hand. While I don't normally agree with FAL, I don't try and derail his threads just to goad him into an argument. I suggest that you don't, either.
     
  16. agedman

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    Are you posting that folks that are living on SS are wrong to do so?

    Perhaps I am misunderstanding your post.

    I have a neighbor who planned and saved for retirement only to see it vanish by the traumas of medical expenses and financial institutional failures.

    I don't live off Social Security, I can't. I don't qualify except for Med. D, which I haven't had occasion to use.

    But, every year that I worked, I contributed to SS.

    I have contributed tens of thousands into the SS, but I will get not even a dime of benefits from the SS. That doesn't bother me accept that I wish I could have used the money for other retirement programs if I was not going to be able to benefit from the program in which I was forced to contribute.

    Are you opposed to SS for folks who have worked their life, contributed to SS and now are in retirement?

    How is off Social Security not a good thing for retirement?

    Perhaps, you think SS is some form of welfare?

    Would you kind of fill in your thoughts about SS and also "living off others?"
     
  17. Magnetic Poles

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    Click Here


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  18. saturneptune

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    My point is, for those who believe the concept that retirement provisions should be entirely off faith, then refuse Social Security and lets see how strong your faith is. My ultimate point is that the concept is ridiculous and has nothing to do with faith.

    If someone were crazy enough to do that, my other conclusion was that after a short period of time, they would be living off others because they made no provision for retirement.

    No, I do not think SS is welfare. Neither am I insane enough to think it is unBiblical to provide for your retirement or that it shows a lack of faith.

    I am not old enough to collect SS, but close. When I am eligible, I will collect. I guess I do not understand why you cannot.

    God gave us the ability to earn a living. God gave us a brain. The premise of this thread has no basis in Biblical principles, common sense, or your responsibility to take care of yourself.
     
  19. InTheLight

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    One could argue that FAL's OP was trolling. One could say that FAL's constant contention that just about every person's behavior that doesn't match up to his standard is hiding behind sin as trolling.

    [We now return you to the original thread.]
     

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