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Christians and the beach

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gerald285, Nov 23, 2007.

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  1. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
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    4 pages of debate, and gerald never returns.

    I smell a troll! The same with the anti-santa thread.
     
  2. Pipedude

    Pipedude Active Member

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    Modesty and decency are an area of study distinct from the question of whether or not a man lusts after a woman. Confusing them clouds the issue and makes intelligent exchange impossible.

    As an extreme example, consider a 90-year-old Alzheimer's patient who appears naked in the lobby of the nursing home. She incites no lust, but her appearance is immodest and indecent. They are distinct topics.

    Create all of the imaginary snowmen you wish and call them saintly and disciplined, it doesn't do a thing to make a given woman's appearance either modest or immodest. That is something that God already knows, even if all of the men in her presence have the opposite opinion.

    Talking about the corrupt hearts of men and their incorrigible eyes is a red herring. And talking about modesty to this generation is begging for sneers. So I won't do either. G'day.
     
  3. Armchair Scholar

    Armchair Scholar New Member

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    I agree 100% with the Scripture where it gives direct instruction concerning modesty and all that God has made clear about it.

    However, I have seen too many Christian men (mostly leaders) lay constant blame on women just because they look like women, when really they have a hard time controlling their eyes and thoughts no matter how modest a woman in their presence is dressed.

    I have hardly heard an equal mention to Christian men to be sure they don't wear skin-tight Speedos on the beach, at the pool, etc. Some consider a shirtless man to be a form of nakedness, but I have heard few Christian leaders address this when lecturing women about not showing cleavage or having a bra seam showing through a not-so-tight sweater. I have seen a lot of double-standards and sadly it makes the clothing subject a hot potato.

    I have seen men wear their jeans just as tight as any woman who does the same, yet most of these Christians leaders won't bring it up. It's as if they are trying to defend themselves against their own lack of responsibility by blaming the women--even when most of them in their church know to dress modestly and DO.

    I have seen a pastor stare at a female congregant's breasts half a dozen times and she was dressed very modestly--just a bit overly endowed in that area, which no loose sweater or baggy sweatshirt would have totally been able to hide. He should have known better. That same pastor once stated to another female congregant that she had no business wearing pants at her job. Her job required pants because she had to climb ladders and mix paint, etc. He told her that she should "get a woman's job" so she "could wear dresses." This same pastor even had a problem with women wearing modest (loose, non-revealing) pants, because, he said, he could "see their legs." The way he said it was like pants on a woman made him realize they had legs and that was sexual to him. Personally, he seemed to be revealing a lot about himself the more he harped on the women. However, gouchos and cullottes were OK to this pastor. Go figure.
    If it is revealing on either gender and conjures any kind of lust in either gender then it can be a problem. The unsaved don't understand the kind of self-control that Christians know. They do what feels natural to them. For Christians, both genders know better, if their heart is right with the Lord. The Christian man knows, because of Scripture, not to stare or look where he knows he shouldn't, and a woman knows to dress the most proper way possible, considering the attire of today's world. Sometimes alterations are necessary.

    Not only do the men need to be admonished about the use of their eyes and that the eyegate often directs the thoughts, but they too need to be instructed that modesty of apparel goes for them too.

    I once knew a young woman who believed she was holy because she wore only dresses and dressed frumpy on purpose. To that I say, if we want to think that way then let's go back to wearing long robes and sashes like everyone wore in the days of the early church.
     
    #43 Armchair Scholar, Nov 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2007
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Well said.

    In another post in another thread one gave this description of legalism, which I believe says it very well.
    I agree.

    Ed
     
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Legalist?

    Definitely "Yes!" IMO.

    Troll?

    "No." Ya' might 'oughter' check out your 'smeller', there, I'd say.

    gerald285 averages about a post a day.

    However, if you can 'sniff out legalism', you might go into 'olfactory overload', at times.

    Like on this thread. :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    As you are referring to npetreley, if you take a look at the 'picture', upside his name, it looks like somebody probably "done beat you to the punch"'.
    >
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    Literally! :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  7. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Ok, so I was redundant, without knowing it!

    Ed
     
  8. The Scribe

    The Scribe New Member

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    The few times I've gone to the beach I've been covered better than the guys in the picture. ;)

    Christians do need to dress modestly and different than the world. Good post. :applause:

    **Icon picture removed---exceeds BB size limit**
     
    #48 The Scribe, Nov 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2007
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    You're just jealous of my pine tree with the fresh clean scent.
     
  10. jshurley04

    jshurley04 New Member

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    With all due respect...


    With all due respect to your opinion and personal preferences I offer two thoughts:

    1. Don't ever assume your opinions and preferences to be the be all end all of anything.

    2. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Pretty good joke and to think that you went to such extreems to pull it off. That's a good one.
     
  11. christianyouth

    christianyouth New Member

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    Gerald, I think the reason why you are imposing these standards is because you want goats to look like sheep. It won't happen. Old creatures will dress in their old ways, which many times is immodest. But when God saves someone, everything changes, including the way they dress. My mom tells me many times, that as soon as she got saved, she started dressing different. No one told her to dress different, but the clothes that at one time she thought were perfectly fine, she now saw as immodest. Now as a new creature that has a heart that loves God, you couldn't get her to wear anything immodest. That is what the Holy Spirit does, it convicts us of sin.

    Are there a lot of nominal Christians who dress immodest? Yes. There are a lot of nominal Christians who get abortions and who live in adultery, who are extremely materialistic and have no love for God. But the immodesty in dress is just a symptom, it isn't the disease. The disease is that they have never had a divinely wrought heart transplant.
     
  12. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Two issues:
    (1) who decides what is "immodest?" I think there's plenty of dress that everyone would agree is immodest....but what about the "gray areas?"
    (2) Isn't your comparison of someone who dresses immodestly to someone who has an abortion a bit extreme? And what if you're referring to someone who commits a "gray area" violation....you think they're immodest; other Christians don't? That's a mighty harsh standard.
     
  13. christianyouth

    christianyouth New Member

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    I believe in definitive sanctification, I.E. at regeneration a work of sanctification takes place that completely transforms the individual. This leads to a new lifestyle, completely in contrast with the unregenerate. This effects their dress as much as everything else, that's my entire point. About what deciding what is immodest, just ask, "does this bring attention to my body or to my face?" About the specifics(pants,so on), that's nonsense. Let the Holy Spirit do his work in convicting of sin, I say.

    The standard, of is this clothing a frame for my face or for my body, applies to both men and women. My old youth leader, after being saved felt convicted of the Lord to stop wearing tank tops. Not sure why, he was a pretty muscular looking guy, but I think the Spirit convicted him of this principle, not any person. There is the difference. Now, am I going to apply that rule universally, that men shouldn't wear tank-tops? No, of course not.

    About 'grey areas', if your referring to areas that Scripture doesn't touch on, I agree they exist. But I think Scriptural principles and spiritual discernment can be applied to every activity(mixed-swimming, going to movies, etc.) To say otherwise, is to say that God gave us a book that is culturally irrelevant. Also, even if principles couldn't be applied to these areas, we would still have the Holy Spirit to convict us of things that are wrong.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Bingo!! We have a winner here!!

    It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of all things. And I don't think that the Holy Spirit's name is Gerald.

    You said that your mother began to dress more modestly when she was saved and that "no one told her to do so".

    Don't you think that the rest of us Christian women have the same convictions without being told, rather graphically and indecently, how to cover our bodies? That's all that I want people to understand.



     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    But how did christianyouth know that the dress was more modest? What was the standard?
     
    #55 Aaron, Nov 24, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2007
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Please explain how the verse about proper clothing has nothing to do with bikinis.
     
  17. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    How come when men lust, it's always the women who have to try harder?

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Reconcile your post to righteous Lot, King David and Paul (the "chief of sinners")
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    That's true, but the problem is more with the fairer sex than with the male side, which is why the NT commandments are directed more to women than the men.

    So if you can't find fault with Paul telling women to dress modestly while not giving the same explicit commandment to men, you're on thin ice to cast this stone at gerald.

    I see the OP as an attempt to apply God's standards to the customs of today, and I see no such attempt on his detractors. In fact, I see them trying to say that there is no standard of modesty.
     
  20. drchevette

    drchevette New Member

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    I'm not overly ashamed of the body
    God gave me other than being overweight like most Christians.
    When I go swimming, I wear a t-shirt to cover my chest for the same reason a woman would. I need not say anymore.
    There are clothes for Christian women to wear that don't look as though they came from the Victorian age, that can make a good looking woman better looking without being to revealing. Let's face it God made women to have those certain curves to catch a young mans eyes, to catch the young man for a husband. God knew what He was doing. We just need to clean up our minds and get them out of the gutter.
    If you have a Clean Heart, you'll have a clean mind!
     
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