Christians and War

Discussion in 'Politics' started by J.D., Jan 9, 2012.

  1. J.D.

    J.D.
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    "American Christians, especially fundamentalists and evangelicals, if serious about the Bible and biblical freedom, have got to end the love affair with America’s standing army. It is unbiblical, it is outrageously, unbiblically expensive, and it is invasive, destructive, and deadly, often not in pure defense. We have to stop the mentality of—as a popular country singer put it—“we’ll put a boot in your *ss, it’s the American way,” stop applauding everything the military does as if it were automatically the gleam of national greatness, quit praising all soldiers all the time as sacrosanct individuals, and quit forbidding any criticism of the military as if it were the holy of holies. It is simple: for many people, the use of force, deadly force, and the military that embodies that power are idols. And like David taking a census of the people for battle against God’s will, we too often trust more in our nation’s military capacities than in God. This has got to end if we are ever to see freedom once again."

    Comments are taken from the Article Restoring Freedom in National Defense by Joel McDermon:

    http://americanvision.org/5484/restoring-freedom-in-national-defense/

    "Blessed are the peacemakers"; "The Prince of Peace";....
     
  2. plain_n_simple

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    Excellent post! I can only add that we war not against flesh and blood.......
     
  3. Havensdad

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    Good stuff.
     
  4. Crabtownboy

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    Excellent post. Christ is called the Prince of Peace, but never the Prince of War. It is no surprise that when many folk around the world hear the word "Christian" they immediately think of war ... usually against them.
     
  5. plain_n_simple

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    It is no surprise that when many folk around the world hear the word "Christian" they immediately think of war ... usually against them.

    Sad for the U.S. Some even justify war using the OT.
     
  6. seekingthetruth

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    Let me give a more personal example of why you guys are wrong.

    Yes, we are to love people and share the gospel with them and encourage them to become christians through love......but if one of them breaks into my home in the middle of the night and puts the lives of my wife and 6 year old in danger, then I will have no problem pumping as much 000 buckshot into them as possible.

    If one of you was being beaten to death and I saw it happening, I would have no problem putting down your attacker to protect you.

    I don't think God intends for our country to be aggressive, but I don't think He intends for rogue dictators to threaten our families. I also don't think God would want us to sit back quietly and watch Hussein drop nerve gas on hundreds of thousands of Kurds while his sons Ousay and Dupesay rape and kill innocent young women at will.....and us not do something to protect them.

    I believe that as Christians, it is our duty and responsibility to protect the innocent from evil. Being Christian doesn't mean we have to be weak sissies and watch others die without coming to their aid.

    As far as people associating Christianity with war, don't you think the Muslims have the market on that cornered?

    John
     
  7. seekingthetruth

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    By the way, if it wasn't for our Army, you would be governed by a Muslim or Chinese regime, and your Bible and your faith would be outlawed.

    It is the Army that protects your right to voice goofy opposition to our goverment. You despise the very institution that gives you the right to despise them. How's that for irony?

    John
     
  8. Havensdad

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    I have no problem protecting my family. I would shoot them in the leg. Far be it from me to send a man plummeting into hell for all eternity.

    I would do everything I could to help you, short of killing your attacker.

    So he would rather us intervene THERE (where, coincidentally, there are huge oil reserves...), rather than in a place like Somalia (that we have largely ignored), where the atrocities are much worse and more widespread? What about right across our border in Mexico? Enormous problems over there.

    What are the "weak" going to do when we are bankrupt? And where in the Bible does it say we are to force help on people, who are rioting in the streets and demanding that we leave?

    Do you, personally, feed every homeless, starving person in the world? Why no? How dare you...oh, wait, you don't have the money....neither do we.

    If people want to go help people overseas, then they should VOLUNTEER, and RAISE THEIR OWN MONEY. You do not steal from one group of people, and then claim it is "charity."

    Not to mention, our money would be far better spent on humanitarian relief, rather than blowing the arms and legs off children to, "Protect our national security interests."


    Not anymore.
     
  9. plain_n_simple

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    I do not care if I am outlawed to follow Jesus, whether Muslim or Chinese.

    The army does not give me any rights, I deny my rights to follow Him.

    God said "Peace on earth, goodwill toward men."

    "We do not war against flesh and blood...." Do a study on that.
     
  10. seekingthetruth

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    Ok. let me rephrase that...the Army does not give you the right to have goofy opinions, but it does protect that right and preserve it for you.

    The spiritual warfare discussed in Ephesians 6 has nothing to do with the physical defense of our country and our families.

    Face it. Without our Army you may not have ever even heard the Gospel.

    And, has it occured to you that perhaps a strong Army is a deterrent, and actually creates more peace than war? The Bible says we will always have war, our Army keeps much of that in check. Perhaps it takes "some" war to prevent much more war.

    When Jesus lets Satan loose to fight the final battle, are you going to protest that war too?

    John
     
  11. plain_n_simple

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    The spiritual warfare discussed in Ephesians 6 has nothing to do with the physical defense of our country and our families.

    What part of flesh and blood do you not understand?

    Face it. Without our Army you may not have ever even heard the Gospel.

    Jesus told us, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel..." It does not say "Go and preach the gospel after the army makes it possible."
     
  12. ktn4eg

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    FWIW, I came to know Jesus Christ as my Savior while in the USAF. Moreover, I have found many dedicated Christians among the ranks of our military. Are you suggesting that all of these people were sinning by joining the military?

    While I do not believe our nation should seek to instigate wars, I see nothing inherently sinful in having a strong military to protect us.

    OTOH, I have disagreed with many of the policies of many of our adminstrations (both R and D) when it came to the use of our military.

    If the military were so inherently anti-biblical, why did John the Baptist not counsel those soldiers who came to him to leave the military (Luke 4:14)? If the military were something all good Christians should despise and shun, why would Paul tell Timothy to be a "good soldier" (2Tim 2:3)?

    --ktn4eg E-6, USAF/Tn ANG (retired)
     
  13. seekingthetruth

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    What part of spiritual warfare do you not understand? The battle against Satan is a spiritual one not fought with flesh and blood. The battle against our enemies that wish to destroy us is a bloody one. they are two seperate battles.

    Man can and does sin without Satan's influence. Satan is not always behind every aggression. man has an evil heart without any help from Satan at all. And the battle against men that wish to harm us and our families is a physical battle, not a spiritual battle.

    John
     
  14. plain_n_simple

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    FWIW, I came to know Jesus Christ as my Savior while in the USAF. Moreover, I have found many dedicated Christians among the ranks of our military. Are you suggesting that all of these people were sinning by joining the military?

    No. Are you suggesting I need to be in the military to find Christ?

    If the military were so inherently anti-biblical, why did John the Baptist not counsel those soldiers who came to him to leave the military (Luke 4:14)?

    Luke 4:14
    And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.


    What?

    If the military were something all good Christians should despise and shun, why would Paul tell Timothy to be a "good soldier" (2Tim 2:3)?


    2 Timothy 2:3
    Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.


    Notice it says "soldier of Jesus Christ" not the flesh army you are trying to bend this verse to say.
     
  15. J.D.

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    I'm guessing that some of yall didn't read the article. There's no denial for the need of National Defense in it.
     
  16. plain_n_simple

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    The battle against our enemies that wish to destroy us is a bloody one. they are two seperate battles.
    It is the same battle, against Satan. There are only two masters. You will serve one or the other.

    Man can and does sin without Satan's influence. Satan is not always behind every aggression. man has an evil heart without any help from Satan at all.

    What influence then? Gods? There are so many verses against this twisted thinkng I'm not going to embarass you. Satan is behind every aggression. Man has an evil heart because of Satan.

    Give me the scripture that says as Christians we kill.

    Give me the scripture that says we fight a fight against flesh and blood.
     
  17. seekingthetruth

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    If Satan were locked in hell today, sin would live on. men have evil hearts and can sin on their own.

    And, if you don't fight evil men, then evil men will rule over you.

    John
     
  18. plain_n_simple

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    Let's see the scripture, or stop trying to justify war and killing in Jesus' name.
     
  19. seekingthetruth

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    Besides if Satan were behind all sin, then why are we held accountable for our sins?

    It is my sin that condemns me, not Satans. You have some faulty theology, and you refuse personal accountability. Satan does not always "make me do it".

    Spiritual warfare and protecting our country are two seperate battles.

    John
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    Chuck Baldwin had a great piece on the same subject.


    http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin666.htm


    But it does look like your thread has been hijacked by the "Christ wants us to be pacifists" crowd.
     

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