Christians are not required to tithe

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Olivencia, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Olivencia

    Olivencia
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    There is no New Covenant command for the Christian to tithe. To insist that a Christian must tithe is to speak where God has not spoken.
     
  2. canadyjd

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    Perhaps, but there certainly is an expectation and many examples found in N.T. scripture that Christians give and support the cause of Christ in the world, including ministries and offerings of benevolence.

    To fail to recognize that is to ignore what God has spoken.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. annsni

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    Yeah, but we feel its the least we can do. :) We give with glad hearts.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

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    I don't tithe unless I can do it cheerfully.

    Most of the time I scream with joy when I give.
     
  5. Jeep Dragon

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    When you use the word tithe, you do mean tenth, right? The word tithe means tenth. If you give a tenth of your income, you could call it "giving a tithe of your income," but to use the word tithe as a verb sounds like a following of the Old Testament tithe laws that defined who was to tithe, of one one was to tithe from, where the tithes were to go, when the tithes were to be distributed, and who were to take the tithes--all of which we do not obey today.

    Forgive me if I get annoyed by the blurred use of the word tithe with the word give or gift:saint:
     
  6. Allan

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    Though we are not 'commanded' to tithe the principle of the tithe is indeed addressed by God in the NT an those things that related to it. (example. such as pastors being taken care of by the provisions of church - which was something done in the OT in accordance with tithe).

    But I will state, for the record, that you are right in that giving 1 tenth is not what God has 'required' of the NT believers but that we are to give MUCH MORE than a tithe. We should be giving continuously, generously, and joyfully more than a measly 10 percent of our income. The tithe is spiritual milk and something to help people see Gods provision so they can by faith give so much the more To God and his people.
     
  7. Allan

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    Then you misunderstand just what the tithe was to be. It was a gift that was given. And though it was part of the law it was still to be done with joy because it was 'supposed' to reflect their thanksgiving to God who provided their substance from which they gave back to God.
     
  8. donnA

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    It's a trust issue, do we trust God, the NT teaches giving, just not 10%. Not giving is a missed oppertunity for blessing and expereincing God at work in and around us.
     
  9. Jeep Dragon

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    I do agree with that view as the tithe laws were to teach people the giving spirit that the law portrayed.

    However. Suppose you were a new Christian who had never heard of tithing and all you had was the Bible. Suppose you looked up all the verses that contained the word "tithe" in it and read in context all the details that the tithe laws entailed. Then, someone told you that "Christians today are required to tithe." Would that confuse you if you were not a land owner in the promised land and could not find any Levites?

    Giving 10% of one's income to a local church budget is not tithing, it is simply resembles an act of cheerful giving if it is done cheerfully, not grudgingly or of necessity. Cheerful giving is commanded in the New Testament, but an exact amount of what or how often is not specified.

    This morning in Sunday School, I received the weekly handout. On the back it quoted I Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him..."

    then said: "This meant--on Sunday, they were to bring tithes and offerings to church."

    That is taken out of context. The chapter was Paul addressing the church of Corinth to start saving up (money?) on the first day of the week so that when Paul arrives, he will not have to "gather" it from them, he can just grab it and take it to the saints in Jerusalem who were suffering from a famine. He told them that he ordered Galatia to do the same.

    Why do people have to try to push something that is not there? :thumbs:
     
  10. Allan

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    Good to hear :)

    I would say that 'new' christian needs someone to come along side and help them understand some things about studying scripture and that just because the word 'tithe' isn't specifically there does not mean it was something continued in principle for the same reasons it was set up in the OT. You can't find Trinity in scripture but that does not mean it is not there nor that it is not implied. Some people tend to forget there was more than 1 tithe givin in the OT. The word 'tithe' simply refers to the amount offered to God as the basis or very basic (ground floor) of learning to trust both in and on Him AND that it had a specific purpose to be used for.

    Actually, it is. Tithe means 10% and the 10% or tithe that was given was alway of their increase or best. Thus the principle for the NT saints which is derived from the OT is still unchanged. Our giving should always be of our increase (not left over - after paying everything else) nor should it be least of what we have.


    Agreed, but the tithe is ecentially the smallest amount that should be given. Even pagans honored and honor still their false gods in this (because they do and did give at least 10% to them) more than many christians the One True God who is deserving of such honor and trust and so much more than that.

    Well, I agree it was on Sunday but I also agree with you that it was about tithing because the tithe has a specific purpose to it. This was an offereing Paul was obtaining and it was in fact money.
     
  11. SaggyWoman

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    Yes, mostly.

    I do give at other times, too, and want to scream more!
     
  12. SaggyWoman

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    Hence my attitude. Gotta do it with joy.

    God don't need my money.
     
  13. Harold Garvey

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    Hi, my first post!

    In the view of tithing, as I understand it and from an accountant's standpoint, the tithe is a tenth of all the increase. many seem to forget that there are expenses in "farming" the land to bring forth the increase. These expenses are first deducted, then the "increase/ profit" is generated.

    Arguing over whether the tithe is scriptural is sort of fruitless. Abraham tithed to Melchisidec without the Law, but also man sinned without the Law. So deciding about the tihte as if it is under or before the law does nothing to support or disanul the tithe.

    Dr. J. Vernon McGee stated that the believer is to give offerings. Some say that the tithe is the base of our giving and offerings are above that base.

    Either way you look at it, YOU CANNOT OUTGIVE GOD!

    Where I see a great discrepency is that the ideal seems to be that one should tithe from their gross income, but as I said, one must first consider expenses.

    If a company bases its existence on a 10% profit margin, it doesn't take long at all for one to see the owner would never even have an increase/profit, but would simply go broke at the first major expense if he tithed just on his increase.

    I firmly believe that if all Christians would simply give a tenth of their increase, above their expenses, no doubt the church would ever have a financial need. But what I've seen is pastors preaching the tithe from the gross income and their tithing members struggle just to pay bills, all the while the pastor is "living it up"

    SHAME! DISGRACE!

    Thanks for allowing me to come here and "vent", but it seems so legalistic to claim the tithe is to come from the gross income when the expenses are never even taken into consideration.

    It takes the implements to produce a harvest. I believe God knows that.

    It's easy to proclaim the tihte from the gross when you're on the end that receives the benefit of it, even if you are the pastor and tihte yourself as you preach it. But wouldn't it be prudent ot be certain your income allows for that tithe and your level of income to live comfortably adjusts for it? Yes, it's plain economics.:thumbsup:
     
  14. Thinkingstuff

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    Welcome to BB! I concure with your statement though I've met other Accountants who believe in a Tithe of Gross income as well. Though I do like your business analogy and its correct. So just to make sure no tithing before net income after taxes? So we have to take our COGS - selling expenses, Operating expenses, Interest payments, Selling Gen, and Admin, and other expenses out before tithes? :laugh:
    I can live with that.
     
  15. thegospelgeek

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    Welcome, Mr. Garvey.:applause:
     
  16. SBCPreacher

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    Often when I hear the argument "tithing is OT, we are NT so we are not commanded to tithe," it is made by those who are trying to justify not giving anything to the Lord. I hope that is not the case here.
     
  17. Olivencia

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    Hello Harold Garvey and welcome!

    You wrote:

    Arguing over whether the tithe is scriptural is sort of fruitless. Abraham tithed to Melchisidec without the Law, but also man sinned without the Law. So deciding about the tihte as if it is under or before the law does nothing to support or disanul the tithe.

    --> The same can be said of circumcision but a Christian is not required to be circumcised.

    1. Brown: The NT and tithing.
    Is tithing an obligation under the new covenant? The NT writers maintain an eloquent silence on the matter (note especially 1 Cor. 9:13), choosing rather to emphasize: (1) the need for spontaneous generosity (Lk. 21:4; Acts 11:28-30; 2 Cor. 8:1-3, 7; 9:5-10; Eph. 4:28; 1 Tim. 6:18; Heb. 13:16; Jas. 2:15-16) in response to God's limitless giving (2 Cor. 8:8-9; 9:15; 1 Jn. 3:17); (2) the need for individual decision (1 Cor. 16:2; 2 Cor. 9:7; cf. Acts 11:29) apart from external pressure (2 Cor. 8:8; 9:5, 7); (3) the blessedness of giving (Acts 20:35); and (4) the consequences of giving as being the glory of God or Christ (2 Cor. 8:19; 9:12-13) (NIDNTT 2:694, Number).

    2. Brown: The tithe in the NT. Since the tithe played such an important part in the OT and in Judaism contemporary with early Christianity, it is surprising to discover that never once is tithing mentioned in any of the instructions given to the church. Jesus mentions -> scribes and -> Pharisees who tithe (Matt. 23:33 par. Lk. 11:42; 18:12), but he never commanded his disciples to tithe. The writers of the Hebrews refers to Abraham paying tithes to -> Melchizedek and Levi paying his tithe to Melchizedek through Abraham (Heb. 7:2, 5), but he never taught his readers to follow their example. Paul writes about sharing material -> possessions to care for the needs of the -> poor (1 Cor. 16:1-3; 2 Cor. 8:9; Eph. 4:28) and to sustain the Christian ministry (1 Cor. 9). He urges and commends generosity (2 Cor. 9:6; 8:1-5) but never once does he demand, as a command from God, that any specific amount be given (NIDNTT 3:854, Tithe).
     
  18. OldRegular

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    You are correct Olivencia. No where in the New Testament is the Christian commanded to tithe. The Christian is told in II Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    Those who insist that the Christian is required to give a tenth should understand the purpose of the giving of the tithe as commanded in the Old Testament.

    Numbers 18:21-26
    21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.
    22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die.
    23 But the Levites shall do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations, that among the children of Israel they have no inheritance.
    24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
    25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.


    The tribe of Levi did not receive a portion of the Promised Land other than certain cities. They were chosen to do the service of the temple and were, therefore, supported by the tithe.

    Sadly many in the SBC have misused the teaching of the Old Testament to enrich the coffers of the church. Are they really doing much different than the TV scoundrels? Just a matter of scale.

    I frequently hear it said by those who insist on the practice of giving the tithe: "Just think what the church could do if everyone tithed". When I hear this I am reminded of the following Scripture:

    Luke 12:16-21
    16. And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
    17. And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
    18. And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
    19. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
    20. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
    21. So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.


    It is obvious if one looks around that the favorite practice of churches that prosper is to build more elaborate structures. It is also a fact that people in general are living longer than previously. In time many of these people need help in the normal routines of life. Instead of building bigger edifices, a monument to what, the churches should cooperate to build assisted living facilities to help an aging population or otherwise help those who are less fortunate.
     
  19. Olivencia

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    Thank you for your comments OldRegular. A church I used to attend also practiced "first-fruit tithing" where in the month of December when here in the Philippines workers get their bonuses the entire pay for that month went to the church. Now it was optional but I'll tell you this, the pressure not to conform was intense. I refused to do it and immediately left the church (for other reasons as well). The pastor came to my house and talked with me. He quoted some passages from the Old Testament but I kept asking him where the New Covenant command was to which he offered nothing. At the time my wife was a Seventh Day Adventist (not anymore) and almost every argument he used I would say, "Well then how is my wife in error believing that we are still to honor the seventh day as the Sabbath"? "If you are going to continually quote from sources other than the New Covenant then we still ought to do as the Seventh Day Adventists do."
     
  20. Jim1999

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    If under laws, the people gave the tithe, even more so under grace. I don't feel that a person has given until they tithed and then the offerings.

    There are exceptions. No family should suffer in order to tithe. That wouldn't make sense.

    Do you need a NT verse? I will give you one. John 3:16 is one...What, no mention of tithe? No. Jesus gave His ALL, can we give less?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

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