Christians are not required to tithe

Well it's interesting how neither of these passages are commands authorizing the observance of the first day.

The disciples broke bread daily:

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart

As for the commandments contained in ordinances, these were added to prepare the people for the FIRST arrival of Messiah. They showed their faith in the coming Messiah by keeping the ordinances. And when Jesus died on the cross the ordinances were no longer needed because he fulfilled them all. But what are these ordinances? Colossians 2:14-17 says... "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

The "ordinances" were a series of laws that Moses penned to prepare the people for the "things to come". The "ordinaces" are no different than the ordinances of small towns and cities where they only apply up to city limits. The Ten Coommandments can be compared to the Constitution of the United States, and the ordinances are the local laws of the cities. Fact is, the word "ordinance" is NOT the same as the word "commandment" is it? Plus, did you notice that in verse 16 it states, "...Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink..." The word "therefore" denotes that it is speaking of the previous topic of the ordinances. So, I ask, WHERE in the TEN COMMANDMENTS does it speak of "meat and drink?" Nowhere! The ceremonial law talks volumes on meat and drink, but the Law of God does not. So, it is impossible that the "ordinances" and the commandments are the same thing.

Also notice that nowhere in the Ten Commandments do we see any mention of, "holydays or new moons" as this passage declares is part of the "ordinances." The Old Testament people were just as much believers in Jesus as the New Testament people. The obvious difference is they looked FORWARD to Jesus coming the first time. We await His second coming today. All the "meat, drink, holy days, & sabbaths" were all abolished at the cross, because Jesus fulfilled their purpose perfectly.

And by the way... the "sabbaths" mentioned here are not the weekly Sabbath of God Almighty. This passage calls these "sabbath days" (plural) as a "shadow of things to come." The weekly Sabbath (singular) of the Lord can in no way be a shadow of something future. The "shadowy" things appeared AFTER sin came into the world. It was a way to deliverance from sin. All the "shadowy things" pointed forward to the arrival of Jesus as Saviour to the cross as an offering for sin. It was after sin started that the Lord declared these shadows were necessary for man to perform. These sabbaths were to be an evidence that the people believed the Messiah would come to permanently wash away their sins. But the weekly 7th day Sabbath was instituted IN EDEN, before sin entered the world. In other words, the annual sabbaths pointed FORWARD to a future event. The Seventh Day Sabbath points backwards to the ultimate event. Creation. It denotes a REMEMBRANCE of the work of Creation. And when we keep that Sabbath holy, we "remember" Him as our Creator.

Read Leviticus 23:24-38 and you will find that the sabbaths mentioned in Colassians chapter 2 are the "annual sabbaths" that acknowledged certain events. Make special note that it even says in Verse 38 of Leviticus 23 that these annual sabbaths are BESIDES the Sabbath of the Lord. Jesus said Himself... "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 The simplest way I know to explain it is. The children of God were symbolically keeping the ordinances in the past looking forward to Jesus where He would actually fulfill them in reality. (Notice the "sabbaths" of Leviticus...Count them and you will find they come too frequently to be considered WEEKLY Sabbaths )

Leviticus 23:23-38, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, (sabbath #1 day #1) a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, (sabbath #2 day# 10) and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.(sabbath #3 day #9) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.(sabbath #4 day #15) Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.(sabbath #5 day #8) These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD."

FIVE "sabbaths" that are defined as "feast days" of the Lord within a 15 day period, and again, that's BESIDES the weekly Sabbath of the Lord. The Lord is rather blunt here. He is listing 5 "sabbath days" that fall on certain "days of the 7th month" that will actually fall on different days of the week every year. And then He makes special note that we understand these to be BESIDES the Sabbath of the Lord in verse 38. And did you also notice the meat and drink offerings mentioned in Leviticus? This absolutely confirms that they are the same thing that is being spoken of in Colossians 2:14-17. Fact is, IF this "law contained in ordinances" is the same as the "Law contained in stone" then I ask for all those reading to share with me the commandment that is written within the Ten Commandments that speaks of "meat and drink" offerings. Biblical fact is...

Hebrews 9:1,10 "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

One more point must be stressed here. It stated this in Colossians 2:17, "...Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ" Let me ask you this... when I stand in front of a light source I cast a shadow correct? Now, if you find that shadow I cast and follow it you will eventually come to my body, correct? Does my shadow continue on behind me? No, it stops at the body does it not? All those feast days are shadows of things that Jesus did in reality. When you follow those shadows you will eventually come to rest before the body of Jesus Christ on the cross. There is no shadow beyond the cross. the "ordinances" were nailed to that cross. He did EXACTLY as those shadows depicted He was to do.

 

I am a pastor and count me as one who does not think the bible teaches a NT tithe as a command. It does teach that one should give to support the church.

 

The NT principle of giving is not the tithe.

The basis of NT giving is:

2 Corinthians 9

6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

However, this doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't tithe or even do more (or less) than the tithe.

If that is the prupose of your heart, to tithe your income then God will bless you in accordance with the purpose of your heart and whether it is freely and cheerfully given.

Imagine your child giving you a gift but you know that he/she really didn't want to spend the money.

Imagine that same child handing you the gift with a loving look on his/her face beaming and waiting in anticipation for you to open it.

HankD

 

Then you'll have to explain how Abraham paid tithes unto Melchisidek after the "order" of Aaron/the Leviticla priesthood?

Income is increase when and where there are no crops or livestock involved. Also, Abraham paid tithes, not gave crops or livestock to Melchisidek.

God has and does require giving so the man of God is supplied to meet his living, but not the tithe in the Levitical priesthood sense. Our preachers of today are not "priests" in the Levitical sense.

Dare I ask you to research and show us other prophets not of the order of Aaron?

 

The New Covenant is dogmatic about many things, the Virgin Birth for instance. I am allowed to be dogmatic about the Deity of Christ, which the New Covenant is also dogmatic about too.

Maybe your statement needs adjustment?

 

If your claim is that because Abraham gaves tithes to Melchizadek, not under the Law-- that is, then, under grace-- that means Christians are to be tithers... alright, then it's under grace for a Christian to plunder a region, kill all the people and take the spoils, as long as he gives a tithe of the spoils to the local priest?

 

Why do I need to do that? Melchizedek was not after the order of Aaron. What I said was that nowhere does the Bible require anyone to tithe of money, of income, or to a church. The only tithe commands are those in the Law that were only of crops and livestock from the land of Caanan and tied to the annual feasts, the Levites and priests, and the poor.

Nowhere does Hebrews 7 transfer the Levitical tithe to the church, nor does it transfer the Abraham tithe to the church.

Hebrews 7 canceled the Levitical tithe because the Levitical priesthood was no more after Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Hebrews 7 does not say that Abraham's tithe applies to anyone besides Abraham.

This verse does not prove an ongoing tithe just because Christ is an ever living priest after the order of Melchizedek. If that were the case, we would have to do what Abraham did. Abraham only tithed to Melchizedek once from the spoils of war.

I am not sure what you mean here, and I was not limiting income to money. My point was that the tithe was not based upon a source of income but rather of the annual increase of the harvest. The tithe was not an "income tax" of whatever sort.

Of course, Abraham here obviously tithed of many different things, which included crops and livestock.

I agree. Some try to manipulate things either way so that it's the same effect, although they want to have their cake and eat it too by allowing the pastoral "Levites/priests" to own property also.


My point in my arguments is that the Bible nowhere places Christian church giving in the context of tithing in that one does not fulfill some kind of tithe obligation according to the Bible by giving 10% of one's net/gross/gross+benefits income to a church.

 

HG, we're speaking about Tithing, not the Virgin Birth and so on.

 

I admire your "christian" conduct.

Abraham gave tithes to Jesus Christ in the person of Melchisidek.

Your thinking applied as reasoning that there is some "local priest" suggests Catholocism.

When I joined Baptist Board, I entered into a "Baptist Only" forum, are you a Catholic posting in here?

 

I'm sorry I asked you to do something you cannot do.

I am not a 7th Day Adventist, are you?

Ok, so maybe you're Jewsih and the money collected in the storehouse/tithe/offerings should go to the synagogue?

You're arguing is amiss and nothing has been "cancelled" but is delayed until the Jews make the offering of the abomination of desolation.

We're to bring in all the tithes/offerings into the storehouse to distribute to see the Gospel is spread. It cannot be dome without money to support the work. Paul received offerings. Why is it you seem to arguing against this?

Call it what you will: tithe? Not me, I call it all offerings.

Those who preach tithing rarely understand that all they get is to also be "tithed" according to what the Bible teaches.

I have yet to see any pastor who tithes the value of the cars he drives, owned by the church, tithe the gas the church pays for, tithe on the housing allowance he gets, or pastorium value, or tithe the value of all the gifts he gets.

So if a man wants to preach tithing, he'd best be readyu to own up to what he is preaching.

 

No; you can click on my name and click on Profile from the dropdown list and see that I am Baptist.

 

I replied to your general use of what the NC is dogmatic about. I hadn't suggested we were not talking about tithing.

You made the remark I addressed. I see you "backed up" on your words.:thumbs:

 

OK, now that you've cleared that up for me, I see your use of sarcasm.

Maybe you should try to be more earnest online and avoid sarcasm so you won't be so easily misunderstood.

I apologize if I offended you in any way.

 

After Abram gave tithes of all the spoils of the war to Melchizedek, he gave the rest to the king of Sodom (Genesis 14:21-24). Do we "follow" Abram's example and give the other 90% of our "spoils of war?" to "Satan" or "the world" or "sodomites" or however we may like to "spiritualize" the other side of the action?

 

Of course, without money, we cannot support the work of the Gospel. However, the command for the priests to bring all the tithes into the storehouse has nothing to do with a New Testament christian being commanded to "give 10% of his income to a church." The term offering always refers to a burned sacrifice that is put on an altar. Paul did received money from churches, but they were not "tithes" or "offerings," they were "gifts" or "donations" that he instructed from some churches.

I agree with you totally and do not see what your argument was about previously. I will give you this if it will make you smile. The Bible does not command a pastor to give 10% of what he receives to something, but whatever the Holy Spirit may place on his heart to do for people. However, as you said, if a Pastor insists on reinterpreting the Old Testament tithing laws to somehow apply to a New Testament church setting involving money, then he should consider include the "tithe of the tithes" to try to do more justice to the law and to acknowledge Malachi's addressing of the priests mishandling of the tithes to show that God did have a beef with how the priests handed the tithes, not just on whether or not the people gave tithes.

 

I've heard this said often but I disagree with it. There is a list of requirements for Gentile Christians to meet and giving MUCH more than a tithe is not one of them. We are to give what we purpose in our hearts to give and we are to give that amount joyfully.

 

I am a Christian.
I am required by God to Tithe to my Local Church.
I am a Baptist.
I cannot tell other Christians what to believe.
Nuff said.

 

Actually, under the law there was more than just the "tithe". That is why often times the word is plural "tithes".

Not many Christians who do tithe keep these related parts of the Hebrew economy (dispensation) and that is good thing if they are giving it by faith.

Deuteronomy 14

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year...
28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:​

Every first born creature (including your children) you possessed was to be "redeemed" in gold or silver and given to the Lord or given to him directly via the Levites. ​

The "firstfruits" of your fields (garden - under the law you could only grow one kind of crop) were given to the Lord.​

Every 7 years you had to release all who owed you money.​

Not every "offering" was a free will offering.​

There was also a temple tax.​

Plus more. It is estimated that the average Hebrew landowner (wage earners were not required to tithe even under the dispensation of the law) was required to give 20-30 percent of His gross income to the Lord.​

We are not under the law.​

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.​

Some will say that the tithe was instituted before the law.
So was the Sabbath and circumcision.​

If you tithe or double tithe (or whatever) you do well, but only if it is by faith because whatsoever is not of faith is sin.​

Also
2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.​

Do as the Spirit leads and you will do well.​

Personally I am not going to say what I give because scripturally we are admonished not to "trumpet" what we give because
1) We may lay an unnecessay guilt burden upon others.
2) Whatever "reward" that is involved is lost.​

Suffice to say that I give, and to more than my local church.​

To me "giving" is its own reward as I am sure it is with most of you.

HankD​

 

So you think that faith never has to obey anything?

Did any of the Hewbrews see God at any time to not have to use their faith when they tithed?

Something to be noticed, when Jesus told the pharisees they omitted the weightier matters of the Law, he did commend their tithing.

I now have to ask, if Jesus commended something "under the Law", then shouldn't we respect his commendation and our giving under grace to be ABOVE the tithe?:applause:

The old saying, "You cannot outgive God" is surely the truth!