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Christians not much different than unbelievers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TaterTot, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Once again, Salamander describes himself when attempting to describe another.
     
  2. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Also, how many of these abortions were obtained by people before they were Christians?

    This is also a problem with teaching a license to sin, as is taught in so many churches today.
     
  3. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    When the basis for Christian stewardship becomes controlled by emotions without regard of the facts, feelings over-ride sound judgement. That is due to a denial of self worth on the behalf of why God sets the Christian apart from the world as he obeys the Lord. To disobey the Lord in any area of stewardship is denying onesself the God given opportunity to serve Him and thereby glorify Him, but instead, the creature ends up with the precedence and the desire for the preimmenense takes control. This denies being constrained by love of Christ and is likened to being drunk with wine wherein is excess and wantoness, denying that filling with the Spirit commanded to us as Christians.

    My people perish for a lack of knowledge.
     
  4. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Once again, Salamander describes himself when attempting to describe another. </font>[/QUOTE]My remark doesn't align itsself with his or yours, so debating the debater has gotten you entangled again by your own labor.
    You would have been right in your response, dear Johnv, if you had addressed that statement awarded to me, I do have much to learn, and my pride is evershrinking, yours?
     
  5. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Whose remarks were you referring to mine or PastorSBC1303's?
     
  6. Shiloh

    Shiloh New Member

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    Why be different? As far as separating from you lib's I do! I preach three times a week to lost folks and I will here also.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The problem is a lack of sound Bible teaching and preaching.

    I wonder how many of those girls who would support abortion know how the "play the game," dressing right and acting the part while never having their hearts changed?

    I think we would be shocked if we knew how much sin was going in our most conservative, fundemental churches.

    Liberals have no monopoly on sin.
     
  8. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    A-MEN!
     
  9. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Do we now have a three way conversation?
     
  10. Rachel

    Rachel New Member

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    Wow! And a third of them know someone personally that had an abortion, that were Christians. Very sad. I think someone mentioned here, about how many of them did that before they got saved. I would hope all of them, but I doubt it. :(
     
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Well, TatorTot, I'm going to go on a little rant about how we teach our young people. Not against you, obviously, because you are so sweet and you raised a wonderful and sincere question. But I need to go on a little vent about Christians in general and specifically about raising our children.

    If anyone feels that I am wrong or that I ranted too much, then I will publicly apologize.

    And I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I am truly sorry for my wordiness.
    .............................................

    We as parents, teachers, and the church are raising ignorant children.

    I have two points to make here.
    .............................................

    Point #1

    The world is molding and shaping your children every day. Do you have a daughter? Then are you aware that some female, somewhere is shaping your daughter into the woman that she is going to be? Is it you, as a mother or is it Britney Spears? Is it the AWANA class or is it "Sex and the City"? Dont get huffy on me, people. And don't think that your daughters don't know about that show.

    And those of you who have sons...are you aware, truly aware, of what the world is teaching your sons about manhood? Are they going to emulate Godliness like Joshua or are they more interested in WWF or "Howard Stern"? And don't think for one minute that they haven't been exposed to those things either by watching it personally at your house or at a friend's house or having a peer tell them about it.

    I'm not talking about schools or churches being responsible for our children. I am talking about their steady diet of MTV, rated "mature" video games, movies, pay-per-view, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, WWF, Comedy Central, peers who share ignorant information, and the endless, mindless television, junk music, and internet.

    You may say, "Well, MY child doesn't watch MTV!" Well, if you think that they have never seen it at a friend's house or heard the same songs on the radio...well, think again.

    You may say, "Well, MY child has never seen anything inappropriate on the internet!" Well, has he or she ever been on-line when you are not present? Then they have seen it!!

    Think about the following movies that are targeted at young people.

    </font>
    • Threesome</font>
    • American Pie (I and II)</font>
    • American Pie Bandcamp</font>
    These movies and MORE, are wildly popular with children and young people. And these movies are so unGodly and foul. And it doesn't matter what kind of school that your child attends, I guarantee you that your children know about these movies and what is in them, whether they have seen them or not.

    I am teaching now at a Christian school, and a very sweet school....one that I recommend to people. And you know something...these kids are NO different from homeschooled kids or public school kids. No different. No better....no worse.

    My point is this. Most adults are not aware of the extent of unGodly media that their children have been exposed to or are exposed to on a regular basis.

    And again, I am not talking about the church or the school. I am talking about the home and the community.

    Our children have an exposure to a wealth of information about sex, criminal activity, drug use, unGodly lifestyles, and pornography that we, when we were their age, had NO CLUE about.

    If you as parents could just take a walk through your child's head and see all of the unacceptable things that they have been exposed to via the television and other media, it would make you sick.

    And what would make you even sicker is to know that most of their information is wrong and stupid and needs every so desperately to be corrected by Mom and Dad. Too many Christian young people are making horrible mistakes with their lives because Mom and DAd believed that as long as they didn't talk about these things with their children that their child wouldn't have any knowledge of them.

    They know more...your children know more, a heck of a lot more, than you could even imagine. I'm not making this up. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all. I'm just telling you the truth.

    And I am not accusing Christian parents of intentionally bringing these things to their children...but I am saying that, out of ignorance of their existance/ill effects or denial of their existance/ill effects, these things are allowed to be brought into the homes.

    ...............................................

    Point #2

    Too many Christians have the unfortunate belief that "knowledge" is dangerous.

    Some parents wouldn't dare talk to their chidren about sex because it might give their children "ideas". There is no way that they would have a conversation about drug/alcohol abuse because it might cause their children to be tempted to experiment.

    It's too late.

    Your chldren already have ideas. And they are already tempted.

    You, as Christian parents, MUST engage in difficult conversations with your children.

    They MUST know that premarital sex is a sin, yes.....but that's not all! They need to know about all of the viral/bacterial consequences for inappropriate sexual behavior. And here's a HUGE piece of information that your children MUST know. They must!

    Oral sex is sex.

    There is an epidemic of this type of behavior with young people in our country. Do you know why? One reason is because OUR generation told them that it was OK. Yes! We did!

    Our children were told that it was OK because a former president engaged in this behavior in an extra-marital affair and was not repentant of it and was laughed at by much of the country for "getting caught".

    Bill Clinton's scandal with Monica was a joke to much of the nation. And our children watched us laugh and mock him.

    And they LEARNED from us. They learned that sex is a big joke, and that the behavior that Clinton engaged in is not really sex at all and therefore, no one their age should be held accountable for it.

    And abortion? Why should our children be intolerant of it? They don't even know, really know, what it is in the first place.

    We tell them that it is "murder".....but what else do we tell them? They know absolutely nothing of the development of the baby in the womb.

    When I would tell my 7th and 8th graders that a fetus has a heartbeat many times before the mother even knows that she is pregnant, they are shocked. I show them pictures, beautiful pictures of babies developing in their mother's bodies from beginning to end.

    They don't know that sweet, unborn babies have little fingernails and make faces and even have eyebrows long before they are ready to be born.

    We tell our children that abortion is a "sin", but we don't tell them what makes it so evil. You don't have to show vile pictures of aborted babies to explain why. Instead, talk to your child about the miraculous development of the baby in the womb from conception to birth. Go to the the library and check out books on prenatal care and TALK to your children about why it is so important, based on God's Standard, to protect the unborn.

    Our children understand so little about Godly principles and righteousness.

    We tell them, "Stay pure!" But very few parents ever TALK to their children and I mean really sit down and talk to their children about sex, abortion, and purity even once, let alone to have continuing conversations about it.

    The same thing applies to substance abuse, abuse of music, and abuse of our bodies in general.

    Well, the world is talking to them plenty. Our children's mind are cluttered with a garbage truck FULL of wrong information and unGodly information.

    And we as Christians think that all we have to teach our children is to say the Lord's Prayer or to memorize the Ten Commandments and they will be safe.

    Your children will never be "safe" from the world's ugly messages.

    Now I do not believe in trying to shield one's child from the world. He or she will be out from under your wing before you know it and how will they cope with messages such as "drunkeness and fornication are cool and a rite of passage for young men" or that "Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears are true models of womanhood"? How will they cope with the negative message of the world if you, as Christians parents have only focused on keeping them "safe"?

    How about keeping them "smart", too?

    It's uncomfortable for parents to speak openly with their children about these topics and there is always a fear that the child or young person will ask a question that you cannot answer or do not want to anwer.

    Well....

    Suck it up, people. Just suck it up!

    It's hard being a parent. It's the hardest job in the world and the most important one. Be thankful that a church might offer a "True Love Waits" program. Be thankful that your children get good clinical and life-saving information about their bodies in their biology classes.

    But it boils down to this....YOU are the ones responsible for their understanding of the reality of life and their internalizing of the truths of life no matter what source they get them from.

    You MUST teach your children righteousness. And it MUST go beyond, "Jesus Loves the Little Children".

    You MUST teach your children about life. And it must go beyond, "Watch for cars when you cross the street".

    You don't have to be afraid of what's "out there". The television set and the computer in your own home are dangerous enough.

    But listen to me, Christian parents....you don't have to be afraid of ANYTHING!

    Just open your mouth, Dad. Open your mouth, Mom.

    And say, "Hey, let's have a talk....."

    They may squirm, roll their eyes, sigh incessantly, and even tell you that you don't know what your are talking about.

    It doesn't matter.

    Just make sure that those talks are explicit, serious, non-judgmental, in accordance with God's Word, loving, and make sure that those talks are quite frequent.

    Peace to you all-
    Scarlett O.
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  12. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Powerful post Scarlett. Thanks.
     
  13. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Do we now have a three way conversation? </font>[/QUOTE]Not unless you were referring to me... I don't wish to butt in if you weren't.
     
  14. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    It doesn't pay to try to be more conservative than God since you almost always end up adding words to His finished revelation in scripture.

    Liberals will very frequently subtract from God's Word and folks like you frequently attempt to add to God's Word... God condemned both actions.
     
  15. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I am not mixing laws and grace. I'm referring to the previous post, which is in regards to the lack of what is being taught from the pulpit. I'm not remotely saying that a person's actions determine a person's salvific stance. In fact, I'm in agreement with you that one is saved by grace through faith, and one works as exhibiting faith empowered by grace.

    The point I was making was that a great many pulpits fail to teach on what happens after salvation. Faith without works is dead, yet one would get the idea, if listing to some preachers, that works is unimportant.
    Well, yes, but here I agree with you.
     
  16. Karen

    Karen Active Member

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    Scarlett,
    You had a powerful post. And what you said is true far more often than we think.

    YET, my first reaction to Tater's OP was different than yours.
    Based on my own subjective experiences in prolife work, substituting in public school, sending my kids to a Christian school, and working with the church youth group, there are a lot of parents who work very hard to both train and appropriately shield their kids. And hearing a passing reference to Sex and the City or WWF is quite different than being immersed in those ideas.

    I would not be surprised if a number of kids in Tater's class were not really sure what abortion is, except in the most vague and general sense.
    And it can be very hard for a 12-year-old to articulate an opinion, much less seem to go against the social leaders in the room.
    There is a lot of difference between 12-year-old seventh graders and 17-year-old seniors.

    In other words, sure, they need to be trained. And my husband and I have spent a lot of time training our kids. But they didn't have it down pat in an articulate manner that they were willing to express at 12 years old. Ours were a little older than that before we explained some things REALLY clearly, such as what abortion is. And they did not hear it from other people first.

    Karen
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    They have never been taught the importance of and how to make disciples. The disobedience of their leaders has left them with the wrong impression that all they need to do is to be there at church and hear sermons week after week or do something around the church. I can never think of one time that anyone who was making disciples ever gave me any trouble. Jesus gave the command to make disciples not just listen to sermons and help sweep the floor at church.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I could not undersatnd what the big issue was about abortion for a long time. I grew up on a farm and knew quite well was it meant to abort a calf. That was done to save the life of the cow. So when I heard people talking about it I could not understand why they were against such a thing.

    Think about how many of their parents are afraid to share the gospel and tell others about Christ.
     
  19. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    TaterTot,

    I cannot fathom the pain. In my life, I have only known one woman that told me she had had an abortion. For a third of these kids to personally know someone hurts.

    I thank God that you are trying to make a difference in their lives.
     
  20. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    Wow, I didnt expect this kind of response, lol.

    Salamander and Shiloh, thanks for trying to hijack the thread.

    Others, thanks for keeping it on track

    Scarlett - now why dont you tell us how you REALLY feel. [​IMG]

    You are right, though. Kids that age cannot articulate their opinions, for many of them dont have one yet. These kids are precious. Some have been sheltered, some have not. Some cover their ears when I say the "s" word, lol. One girl cried today as we discussed partial birth abortion. And I didnt show any pictures at all. This is a character development class, not science. I am trying to teach them to think critically and ethically, based on the solid foundation of Scripture.


    Scarlett, you are right. Someone IS going to talk to our kids about these issues. And its going to be ME. I'd rather them have correct information and be a little embarrassed than have incorrect information and who knows what else.

    Thanks for your commitment to young people!
     
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