Christians, Stand up for Jesus!

DanielFive · Jul 31, 2003

Here's a challenging article I read recently:

I think one of the most challenging places to "stand up for Jesus" is when one is in a group setting with other believers; even in "places" on the internet, such as list servs and discussion forums.There is a lot of peer pressure being in a group, even in an electronic format, and we must guard against hiding our light for fear of getting flamed from "fellow believers." Many of these "Christians" on list servs and discussion forums are non-believers posing as Christians so they can get as much anti-biblical, New Age attitudinal change accomplished in the church as possible.

This may sound shocking, but it is true, and quite common.

It is very easy to pose as a Christian on the internet. One just needs to know a bit of Christian "jargon", or a few CCM lyrics, and that is not hard to pick up. Sometimes they do not even bother to make much of a show of being "Christian." This is sad, because it shows how believers are not judging them to be Christians by fruit, but only by profession.

There are a few, of course, who do know the scriptures and are dangerously clever at twisting them and making it seem like they are "rightly dividing the word of truth." Whether they work hard to play the part or not, they usually have one thing in common: they try to get the Christian to question God's Word, which is absolute truth, and to render it relative. This is the key to getting the Christian to eventually depart from the faith. These "posing as Christians posters" literally make merchandise of God's people by using the internet! They use the oldest trick in the book: "Yea, hath God said?"

Often they will alert their friends to come in with a show of force and assist them in doing "damage control" when a real Christian begins to post things that could be used of the Lord to get someone saved or brought back from the backslidden way. They get quite angry and will usually retaliate in various ways when the Christian poster is exposing false doctrine that has crept into the church.

When wrong doctrines and sinful lifestyles are being promoted by professed Christians, and we fail to speak up about them, we are agreeing with them by our silence, and actually become accomplices.

If we do not speak up and counter their lying doctrines with the truth, who knows how many hearers will be subverted? If God has given us light and we refuse to let it shine for fear of persecution from other believers we are not seeking first his kingdom, but rather seeking first our own kingdom of self. Every single day there is an opportunity on the internet to stand up for Jesus and be a soldier of the cross. Are we doing this or are we shirking this responsibility because of the fear of man?

Usually of course, the false professor tries to get the Christian riled so that the truth he has brought to the discussion will be overshadowed by angry words typed in frustration. They will push buttons until the Christian snaps and retaliates with harsh words. Purpose that you will not resort to sarcasm or angry words, while continuing to stand firm for the truth as written in God's Word. Remember the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Often I have been led to just post something and leave it alone. They will try to "undo" the truth, but the readers of the posts are not unintelligent, just deceived. The Holy Spirit has a way of showing his children the truth, no matter how much someone tries to destroy it with twistings and turnings.

Satan's agents post letters on a daily basis that are designed to damage the faith of true Christians. They are on every Christian discussion list and forum I have ever been on.

They want to know exactly where the Christians are weak in doctrine so they can zero in on them and start to work to make merchandise of them. They take their "internet ministry" very seriously and work together on discussion forums, to try to ridicule and discredit Christians who are "standing up for Jesus" and speaking out against the broad road that they exhort Christians to walk down, while all the while teaching them they "shall not surely die."

Day after day these deceivers post letters that put a question mark on what God has actually made very clear in the Bible. Their fellow deceivers, also posing as Christians, respond to their letters with affirmation, and the Christians who read these posts wonder if perhaps they are out of touch with what God's Word really says. Maybe the road they are on really is too narrow, and they need to loosen up a bit. Perhaps they are missing out on the fun of life by denying themselves and taking up their crosses. After all, these other "Christians" don't see things in such a narrow-minded way, now do they? They follow Jesus too, and yet they do not stop conforming to the world. And nobody speaks up and corrects them, do they? No, not a word is said, and little by little, another Christian's faith is finally shipwrecked.

Take the Harry Potter craze for an example. The Bible is very clear about occultism, abstaining from the appearance of evil, and about casting down imaginations that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God. End of discussion. Or it should be. But that is where these "attitudinal changers" come in. Their job is to get the church to accept occultism, or at least tolerate it, and they will not rest in their quest to achieve this goal. They must achieve this goal for the simple reason that this gives Satan "place" in the life of every Christian who will fellowship at the table of devils by reading and defending the Harry Potter books.

This also primes the church for accepting the New Age and New Age Christ much more easily. That is why you will see this subject frequently brought up on Christian forums and list servs. These people want Christian's attitudes to be changed, and this takes time and much repetition to accomplish this. If every God-fearing Christian (there is no other kind) would stand up for Jesus and say Harry Potter is occultic and off-limits for a Christian--absolutely-- they would not be able to accomplish this attitudinal change in the minds and hearts of Christians!

Whether these posters are deliberate infiltrators or are merely misguided; we must boldly contend for the faith as the Holy Spirit leads us, and not allow "attitudinal changers" of whatever kind, to succeed in getting our brethren to depart from the most holy faith once delivered unto the saints.

Christians, stand up for Jesus on the internet! Satan's followers are not afraid to stand up for him! He is only a created being, and yet we serve the creator, the Most High God. Let us get some Holy Ghost gumption and stand up for Jesus who is worthy to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

May God bless and strengthen his people, strong in love and Bible knowledge, to minister on Christian message boards and discussion forums and newsgroups-- even if you are not really liked there and not accepted as part of their group. That is where you are needed the most: to exhort the brethren to continue in the most holy faith and not fall away to the most unholy faith these infiltrators promote.
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I hope this article will encourage some of the many Christians on this board to stand up and be counted here on the music forum. Sure this is probably the most hostile forum on the Baptist Board but this is where the truth is most needed.

Many Godly Christians have stayed away from this forum because of the nature of discussion that takes place here, that is not the right attitude, we must stand up to the ungodly and contend for the faith once delivered.

There are also many Christians who are in effect 'sitting on the fence' on the music issue, those who seem to be able to tolerate the good name of Christ being dragged through the mud here because they want to avoid confrontation. I say it's time to climb down off the fence, stand up for the truth.

No doubt I'll be pilloried for this post, whats new? Frankly I'd rather be disliked for speaking the truth than be popular for being tolerant of flagrant worliness and sin.

Joshua Rhodes · Jul 31, 2003

Bro. Enda,

Where's that article from? You posted no reference.

In His Grip,
joshua

DanielFive · Jul 31, 2003

Joshua, if my memory serves me correctly the man who wrote the article was called Gary Ruby.

I have posted the article almost as written, I did remove one or two references which I thought were maybe too offensive and I added a one observation myself to make it relevant to the music forum.

The question of who wrote the article is irrelevant anyway, unless of course you want to engage in personal attack upon the writer and I know thats not your style Joshua.

Too often, in my opinion people try to blur the issue by trying to question the source, this as been done time and again with David Cloud for example. I can assure you David Cloud did not write this article, not that that would change anything of course. I believe the article to be correct in what it is suggesting regardless of who wrote it.

Joshua Rhodes · Jul 31, 2003

Bro. Enda,

I was just wondering. No malice or hate-mongering intended... just wondering for my gee-whiz bag.

In His Grip,
joshua

PS: Ahh... I think I see your addition now.

Dr. Bob · Jul 31, 2003

Good article and thank you for it.

Would only disagree with the conclusion that the Music Forum is the most hostile.

Tame, bro, Tame compared to many others!!

JonathanDT · Aug 1, 2003

I wouldn't be surprised if there are non-Christians posing as Christians online. I can think of many posts on this message board where I just sat back and shook my head in wonderment at the absurd legalism that was posted. Almost like an atheist writing satire on Christians' "holier-then-though" attitude. Then they further make themselves look like nonbelievers by posting random verses and totally ignoring the context of the verse. I don't want to name any names....

BTW, if there are people like this article claims, I highly doubt they're doing it to try to destroy the church. If I was an atheist and my goal was to destroy the church, I wouldn't do it by infiltrating Christiam forums and suggesting such diabolical things as rock music isn't evil. The only reason that would matter is if I thought rock music really IS evil and the work of Satan. In which case I'm certainly not an atheist/agnostic, now am I?

DanielFive · Aug 1, 2003

Jonathon,

Personally I am most concerned by those misguided individuals who believe they are serving Christ whilst in fact they are being used of Satan to corrupt the minds of impressionable Christians. Eg. Those who have don't seem to have grasp the meaning of the new birth, seperation, total surrender, worshipping in spirit and in truth, etc. etc. Basically I am concerned that poorly taught Christians are being allowed to influence the thinking of others. I'll not mention any names either.

JonathanDT · Aug 1, 2003

Just my opinion, but legalism is much more damaging to the church then rock music could ever be. I think the problem is we disagree on the amount of extrapolation of the Bible in the area of music and Christian freedom. Be careful not to assume that just because someone disagrees with you they are poorly taught. Could be that they are simply so well educated that they know a little more then you. Just a thought.

DanielFive · Aug 1, 2003

Makes me wonder how you define legalism Jonathon, you do realise that when Jesus rebuked the Pharisees of His day He was not talking to saved people. These people were legalists who tried to merit salvation on their own terms by keeping a bunch of useless rules.

People like yourself use the term legalism to justify sin and evil. I would say the term 'legalism' is very rarely used correctly these days. Usually when I hear the term, legalism, it comes from a doctrine rejecting, sin justifying person who has a heart far from God.... and doesn't care.

ScottEmerson · Aug 2, 2003

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
[QB] Makes me wonder how you define legalism Jonathon, you do realise that when Jesus rebuked the Pharisees of His day He was not talking to saved people. These people were legalists who tried to merit salvation on their own terms by keeping a bunch of useless rules.
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The problem with the Pharisees was that they were making up laws that were made by man, instead of those that were written by God. Anyone who makes up rules about anything in the name of God that is not to be found in explicitly in the Scriptures is involved in legalism. Trying to make the case that a specific music is sinful is legalistic, as that is a law that isn't found in the Bible.

People like yourself use the term legalism to justify sin and evil. I would say the term 'legalism' is very rarely used correctly these days. Usually when I hear the term, legalism, it comes from a doctrine rejecting, sin justifying person who has a heart far from God.... and doesn't care.
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No, I don't think they use legalism to justify anything. Your final sentence is exactly the kind of thing that a Pharisee would say.

JonathanDT · Aug 2, 2003

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
Makes me wonder how you define legalism Jonathon, you do realise that when Jesus rebuked the Pharisees of His day He was not talking to saved people. These people were legalists who tried to merit salvation on their own terms by keeping a bunch of useless rules.
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Do you realize the when Paul rebuked the Judaizers, he WAS talking to saved people? I define legalism as pushing a standard onto other people that is not supported by the Bible. It is often accompanied by a "holier-then-though" attitude such as the one demonstrated in the below quote:

People like yourself use the term legalism to justify sin and evil. I would say the term 'legalism' is very rarely used correctly these days. Usually when I hear the term, legalism, it comes from a doctrine rejecting, sin justifying person who has a heart far from God.... and doesn't care.
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Travelsong · Aug 2, 2003

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
People like yourself use the term legalism to justify sin and evil. I would say the term 'legalism' is very rarely used correctly these days. Usually when I hear the term, legalism, it comes from a doctrine rejecting, sin justifying person who has a heart far from God.... and doesn't care.
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I see you're back to your self righteous finger pointing. Let's take this to the music debate thread so we can continue your thrashing. To use one of your phrases, you have demonstrated an unteachable spirit, and I think it's high time we at least get you to acknowledge that you have absolutley no moral basis, Scriptural or otherwise for passing the judgement on others that you take so much pleasure in doing.

DanielFive · Aug 2, 2003

Often they will alert their friends to come in with a show of force and assist them in doing "damage control" when a real Christian begins to post things that could be used of the Lord to get someone saved or brought back from the backslidden way.
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Nice to see you boys back together.

Molly · Aug 2, 2003

Guys,

I do think there are some that just simply do not understand the harm done when the music,or anything else done in a worship service,is done to strictly entice people or make people think that God is cool,my buddy,my pal. I think we are losing a lot of fear of the Lord and reverence when this approach is the emphasis of any church music program.

I,also,have seen very well meaning people do this for the sake of the lost...I have seen a real heart for the loss from these people. I think they do not understand how to share Christ with them through their changed lives and the Word. They think that somehow inviting them to church will do the trick. The church becomes what the lost would prefer,and the church suffers. God is not glorified and the church loses a great deal of authenticity.

I said all this to say,they do harm to the church,without understanding the implications and the harmful trends that go through churches over the years. Most of these people,I believe, are God loving christians who have been deceived.

Yes,There are some here on the forums and in our churches.

About legalism--legalism is anything that says being good and following the law is what saves. It undermines Christ's ultimate sacrifice and His blood that was shed and says that man,if he follows these rules can be saved.

On the other hand,a saved person will want to follow God's ways as recorded in His Word. This is not legalism...We should follow everything God has laid out in scripture,but our salvation does not depend on it. It will show if we are truly His Child,though.

Just my thoughts....Your welcome!

Friends to all,

Molly

Molly · Aug 2, 2003

One other thing,

I think some of you need to think before you post such harsh words to Edna...self righteous,legalists,etc? Edna? I have not seen this from him at all....he has his thoughts on the music topic and I think we should all respect that and BE NICE! Just because you may not agree is no reason to bash. That makes me sad!

The Christlike attitude should be seen in every area of your life...even when people disagree.

Molly

Travelsong · Aug 2, 2003

Originally posted by Bro Enda:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Often they will alert their friends to come in with a show of force and assist them in doing "damage control" when a real Christian begins to post things that could be used of the Lord to get someone saved or brought back from the backslidden way.
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Nice to see you boys back together. </font>[/QUOTE]Let's get back to the debate enda. What are you so afraid of? Is Aaron no longer around to feed you irrelevant links that you don't understand anyway?

DanielFive · Aug 2, 2003

Not at all Travelsong, banging your head against a brick wall of ignorance can get tiresome, but I think I've had enough of a break from you now so I'll be posting in the debate thread shortly.

Travelsong · Aug 2, 2003

For once we are in agreement. If your debating style can best be described in one statement, you just crystallized it. There can be no doubt I feel like you've been banging my head against a brick wall of ignorance.

Sherrie · Aug 3, 2003

Bro. Enda! Great article! I was thinking some of these very words!

Usually of course, the false professor tries to get the Christian riled so that the truth he has brought to the discussion will be overshadowed by angry words typed in frustration. They will push buttons until the Christian snaps and retaliates with harsh words. Purpose that you will not resort to sarcasm or angry words, while continuing to stand firm for the truth as written in God's Word. Remember the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
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Thanks for sharing this!

Sherrie

Mike McK · Aug 3, 2003

Originally posted by Sherrie:
Bro. Enda! Great article! I was thinking some of these very words! Thanks for sharing this!
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I disagree.

Usually of course, the false professor tries to get the Christian riled so that the truth he has brought to the discussion will be overshadowed by angry words typed in frustration. They will push buttons until the Christian snaps and retaliates with harsh words. Purpose that you will not resort to sarcasm or angry words, while continuing to stand firm for the truth as written in God's Word. Remember the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Often they will alert their friends to come in with a show of force and assist them in doing "damage control" when a real Christian begins to post things that could be used of the Lord to get someone saved or brought back from the backslidden way.
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Clearly the point here, as is SOP in Enda's posts is that he is the "real Christian" and we all are just poseurs.

Glad to have you back, by the way.

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