Christians Who Complain

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    It makes me angry that many who call themselves Christians have separated from people in the world and have made such noise that the world talks about their complaints instead of about our God. The world talks about the god of the complainers and not the God of the Bible. They see the complainers and not God. The complainers have not decreased so that Jesus would increase. Instead they have done the opposite.

    There is not one time in the Bible where Jesus condemned the world but those he condemned were the religious folks. Why is it that I read postings by Christians who act as though they are so weak and roll over and play dead instead of living for Christ and trusting God? They have a persecution/marytyr complex and complain that they are being persecuted in America. Too many today, hide from the world and separate themselves in such a way that they are ineffective with non-believers. I find it hard to believe that so many treat the world as though the world is all powerful and God is so weak as though God is dead. No they would not say, "God is dead" but by their fear they live a kind of practical atheism. Too many do not seem to understand how sovereign God is and how Christians must shine and not be regular complainers by trusting God and loving the world enough to pray for them. I fail to see how the complainers live for Christ and make disciples. Don't they understand that we have an incredible opportunity to make disciples especially in areas where the Christians are easily seen as different than the world.

    Why is it that there seems to be a growing number of Christians perpetuating a theology of fear of the world and hiding from anything they perceive as a threat. I do not have to ask myself where there god is. I just cannot see their god as alive and all powerful. What non-believer would be attracted to their god that is not the same God of Daniel and Paul. It reminds me of the time Paul entered a community and perceived that they were religious by having an idol to an unknown god.

    God is all powerful. We need to act like He is alive and silence the complainers.

    The complainers need to be silenced. They have given a lot of fodder for the world to discuss and criticize the Christians because of the noisemakers. Does anyone know of a complainer who has won many to Christ and discipled them? I just cannot think of any in the Bible and any today.

    Think of how Christ changed people in the midst of adversity and did not retaliate and complain about the world. He never complained about how He was treated.

    We need to start applying 2 Chron. 7:13, 14, "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
     
  2. Benjamin

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    I come across a secular board with a section for Christians, and upon looking into it found a Christian being trampled on by a horde of non-believers who where ridiculing everything she said while she desperately tried to contend for the faith. Talk about not hiding and being persecuted! The abuse was uncalled for and showed a real lack of understanding on the part of the people who were turning this girl’s forum into a circus. She was obviously frustrated and she was threatening to quit, while the owner encouraged her to stay, but then would join in with the attacks for his entertainment. Feeling sorry for her, yet proud of her for trying, I stepped into the ring to help her out on occasion. They came after me like a pack of hungry wolves, and used all kinds of tactics and shock value in an attempt to separate me from witnessing in “their” world, but I don’t shock so easy. I wasn’t there very often, but tried to set an example when I was.

    Anyway, she couldn’t handle it any longer and quit. So then having no moderator they became harsher than ever on the Christian faith in an attempt to entice her to come back and protect the forum they were abusing. Some of the things they were saying were so outlandish that I stepped back in and defended against many of their accusations. To make a long story short, the owner then asked me to moderate to which I told him, “Not happening. There are no rules of civil discussion here and I wasn’t going to throw my pearls to the dogs!” He then said it would be my forum and I could make the rules. I know he thought they could run me off with antics and have fun doing it, but guess what, I still moderate that forum. I cleaned it up with guidelines of no fowl language and such, and I am there standing all by myself defending the faith, and witnessing in front of the toughest crowd you would ever want to meet.

    I wonder how many Christians would have the patience, or would be able to tolerate the antics in order to share the Word and defend the faith. Observing what goes on in that board you certainly couldn’t accuse me of running from persecution. It’s been rough and lonely at times though, and is somewhat dying out because they have found someone they can’t bully and have ran out of subjects in trying. The rewards are few; the highest point there for me was when a guy decided to announce he was getting baptized after a discussion on the subject. I also discovered that from my experiences with dealing against the rhetoric from atheist it has given me a novice education in apologetics, and recently was able to use that knowledge to give a young man all the answers he’d been looking for against what an unbelieving world had told him and he has come to see the truth.
     
    #2 Benjamin, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  3. Crabtownboy

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    You are right to be concerned. No where did Christ say, "Stay in your own little group and complain about others. Rather he said, "Go ye into all the world ...."

     
  4. saturneptune

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    If complainers could be silenced, your post would not exist. I see no evidence of your premise in the church where I worship.
     
    #4 saturneptune, Mar 25, 2008
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  5. pinoybaptist

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    errr, uuhhhh, errr.....lemesee, I uhh, think I know what you're saying.... so I uuuhhh think I am on your boat....but, eerrr...wonder if you could just elaborate a little ?

    Personally, I think what the Bible says is "as much as in you, live peaceably with those around you", and if there is any contending for the faith that has to be done, it will be against those who profess to be believers but bring strange doctrine like gnosticsm or no-hellism or such and so on into the church.

    I don't see where there is anything in the Bible that says Christians ought to endeavor for the world to respect them, or have the world respect the Name of Christ.

    I seem to recall Christ telling His disciples in His time that they will be hated by the world just as the world hated Him.
     
  6. gb93433

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    I am drawing a distinction between those who complain and give fodder for the world to talk about their complaints rather than being hated for being a Christian and contending for the faith. I have found that when I hear non-believers talk about Christ I am able to contend for the faith. However when they talk about Christians bad mouthing them, then it seems impossible to stand with the Christians. I have heard quite a number of times they talk about someone they know who calls themself a Christian. Humility goes a long way to winning people to Christ.

    For example I teach at a public university and hear some discussions about Christians bad mouthing the local schools in another part of the country. I see no evidence that kind of discussion wins anyone to Christ. I am quite confident that Jesus could have found numerous things wrong with society but he preached those things of eternal value. In my many discussions I find that non-Christians easily find problems with the TV preachers. Why don't the complainers take action against the TV preachers and let the world see that? Jesus took action against the money changers and the religious folks who were weighing people down? When non-Christians talk about the TV preachers and find that I agree with them it often opens the doors for me to tell them what God thinks too. So many times I have been able to tell those same people what God wants from them. Isn't that what God wants and the Bible teaches.

    We are not here as Christians to discipline the world but to win them to Christ and discipline other Christians among us. Judgment must begin among Christians first.
     
  7. Magnetic Poles

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    How antithetical to freedom and liberty. If you don't like what someone says, don't listen. Everyone has the right to speak their mind, just as you do.

    The fact that you teach at a public university and espouse such an idea is even more appalling. Universities are where ideas should be freely explored and debated.
     
    #7 Magnetic Poles, Mar 25, 2008
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  8. Benjamin

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    My theism would not put the idealistic wants of man to have freedom and liberty in self rule, above the truth of the freedom and liberty that we receive in Christ. I will not be silenced because of the words of men, and that does not mean that I desire to forcefully silence others.

    It depends on “how” one would go about silencing a world full of hate for Christian doctrine. I believe we should make silent their lies by showing them the truth. Many people have come to the belief and proclaim that all Christians want to do is judge them, tell them what they are doing wrong, and take away their fun, which is a LIE! These same people will use examples from the likes of Westboro Baptist Church holding up signs that say they hate gays and dead American soldiers will go to hell and say, “This is what Christians believe!”

    People will say your god demands people to bow down to him and be a slave or he will burn them forever in Hell, that doesn’t sound like a loving god to me. Your supposed god told his people to kill men, women and children, and take their land and you claim he is a god of peace. And that all the religions are the reason for the wars in this world and we would be better off without any god. How do you know your god is god, and the Muslim’s god isn’t; what makes your god any better than other peoples?

    They will tell you Mormons are Christians, a religious sexual cult says they are Christians, Tom, Dick, and Harry say they are Christians; so why should I believe “you” that only “your” brand of Christian is what a Christian really is? Oh, you give me words from the Bible to prove this point; first off men wrote that bible, and all these others interpret the Bible in their own way too, prove to me men didn’t write that Bible to repress and control others with their religion.

    They will say I am just glad that I live in a country where I have the liberty to believe as I choose. If you Christians had your way I would have to live by “your morals” that were programmed into your heads as little children by your delusional parents.

    These are all lies, and they come from the father of them! They may be right that I can’t prove the Words in the Bible are not men’s, but God can, and He does, and I will not be suppressed by “their” attacks on this truth. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, nor will I be silenced because of “their hate” for “my” belief by “their” attempts to push “their moral agenda” on me which logically ends with ‘them” wanting to be not only their own god, but mine.

    Funny, that when one doesn’t crumble at the bullying lies and hide from them, that you begin to earn some respect in turning the other cheek and continuing to preach the truth, and the questions begin to have a different tone.

    Edit to better say: That their statements begin to turn into questions.
     
    #8 Benjamin, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  9. saturneptune

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    It seems you are saying something different than the first post. Christians should not compromise anything to get the world to respect them, if I am reading your post correctly. The first post is saying we should not complain in front of unbelievers about worldly or other things while we are sharing the Gospel. Is this apples and oranges?
     
    #9 saturneptune, Mar 25, 2008
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  10. gb93433

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    An exchange of ideas is great but arrogance is another. Some of the complainers I hear do not have all of the facts and are quite misinformed. They have spent too much making general statements which are not always true. The world hears such ideas and associate Christians with some false statements a few Christians make.

    One of the classes I teach is loaded with an exchange of ideas. In fact the students present a variety of current topics. Once they are done with their presentation, the floor is open for questions. The issue is not just about an exchange of ideas but in using wisdom. I have one rule in class and that is any student is able to disagree with me or anyone else but they must do it respectfully. Some students can get rather agitated. If that happens I remind them that they will have an opportunity to say what they want must it must be done with respect.

    When I was a student a number of professors talked with me privately about Christ. One was rather antagonistic. However, when I agreed with some of their compliants about the TV folks, their objections stopped and I was able to present Christ. Before God opened the door I spent a lot of time praying for them. I often prayed that God would give me favor with them and to give me ways that I could show appreciation to them. I made it my ambition to never leave a professor's office without thanking the person for the help they gave me. Some of the students came and talked with me about some of the problems they might have had with a professor.

    If we expect to win people to Chrst we must use wisdom is what we say and do.

    Don't get me wrong there was a time when I led a stance against a teacher at a local high school. She was teaching some things that were wrong and should not be taught in a public high school. We were not able to make any change until the local TV station in a city of almost one million interviewed a lady from the church. We never disrespected the teacher but just presented the facts. we ever discussed who she was and never gave her name. We went through all of the proper channels to make a change. She was forced to make a change immediately once the TV exposed what she taught.

    What I see in complainers is not a respectful exchange of ideas but rather associated with their ideas is an arrogance the world picks up on. The world associates ideas with the group of people who make claims. A Christian should be seen not as an empty bag which makes the most noise, but rather as someone who is bold as a lion, is humble and respects them.
     
  11. corndogggy

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    How ironic is it that you talk as if "the complainers" are all these other people, when you don't realize that you are complaining yourself.
     
  12. gb93433

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    Both.

    I am reminded of the children in communism who were sent to atheistic schools yet came out as strong Christians, knowing God. Compare them to many of the complaining Christians we know in America. The Christians who grew up under communism and know how to love people are an incredible challenge to me.


    Complainers are often like a dripping faucet. They do nothing but make noise. I cannot think of any time when people who want to make a difference and win people to Christ spend any time criticizing the people they are trying to win. Those who want to win people to Christ see the opportunity as an opportunity given to them from God. Too many times Satan uses condemning Christians to send a message to the world. It is never the gospel but rather criticism. When we give out criticism we draw attention to ourselves and often get criticism in return.



    John 3:17, “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”

    If we stoop to give out what we expect from non-believers then Satan uses us.
     
  13. gb93433

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    Would you call Jesus a complainer when he turned over the tax gatherers tables and condemned the religious folks?

    The fact is that I did more than complain about a church I pastored which regularly invited the Mormon bishop to come and teach. I put a stop to their practice while most of the deacons stood aginst me. The SBC knew about the practice for about 25 years.

    It is not unusual for me to ask complaining Christians to tell me how many they can name who are living for Jesus Christ because of their life. Usually the answer is the same. I find that complainers are those who do nto have enough courage to make a difference but just make noise.

    I pray for my students and the faculty I am around. I pray for opportunities to share Christ. I regularly pray for wisdom in dealing with students and faculty. I am one who is trying to do my best to make not only a temporal difference but an eternal difference in the lives of those I encounter. Can you explain how that is complaining?
     
  14. Alcott

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    IOW ... "STOP BEING SUCH LOUD-MOUTHED JERKS! ALL YOU DO IS COMPLAIN! BE MORE LIKE ME-- I NEVER COMPLIAN! I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN-COMPLAIN-COMPLAIN! WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE!? GET A GRIP? QUIT GRIPING! CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE?!?"
     
  15. gb93433

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    Jesus dealt with the religious folks quite harshly but not the world.

    Isn't Jesus' example sufficient of how he dealt with the world? What makes us so different. Do we have more wisdom than He does?
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    The religious folks you keep mentioning were the world. They were lost, without Christ, on their way to hell, had no eternal futurte with God. You seem to pick and choose who you want to "complain" about. You make vague references to "tv" preachers who complain about the world. We should stand up against abortion, homosexuality, the NEA, etc. We should separate ourselves from these activities to be sure. We need to protect the unborn child, our children from being forced to be indoctrinated into the religion of darwinism, we should fight against Mambla and the like. If you don't like the tv preachers turn off your set or change the channel. One thing for sure is, they will never be silenced.
     
  17. gb93433

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    Compare their actions with the religious people today who gripe about the world in public so they their complaints are heard on the national news. They elevate themselves by their condemnation of others.

    When Jesus spoke to the Sadducees he dealt with them from the Torah. When he dealt with the Pharisees he dealt with them from the entire OT. He used wisdom in dealing with people.

    When I listen to the complainers about the schools in America I must say that I agree with very little of what they say? While at the same time they expect non-Christians to listen to their complaints? Christians must speak to them respectfully on terms they have in common. For example everyone would agree that something like molestation is wrong. Not everyone would agree that all schools are bad. I can think of many examples of where I have seen rebellious uneducated children who were homeschooled and did not share their faith. I can think of some who married non-Christians. In every walk of life there is an absence of perfection and it is the humble who will have the best chance of being heard by others. God gives grace to the humble and opposes the proud.

    People want to see our walk before they will listen to our talk. We must earn the right to be heard. We earn that right by being tested and proven first.

    Actually I am here to win people to Christ and engage myself with people about things that will last for eternity. My job allows me a lot of interaction with students. I and my faith are on trial each day. So I must be careful about what I say and do.

    You suggest turn off the TV. The problem is that the non-Christians for a moment see the idiots and their followers being deceived. I know what they think about stupidity. When was the last time we saw those who complain in public about the world, ever take a public stance against the abuses in the church? There have been a lot of coverups instead.

    I am a strong believer that children are much smarter than we give them credit for. In the majority of cases I have seen in regards to sharing their faith it is the adults who are most fearful. Kids go about sharing their faith without fear with their friends and they pray in faith believing God. It is the adults who teach them fear. It is the adults who separate the natural and supernatural. All is supernatural created by the power of God from nothing.
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    And by your logic you elevate yourself on this thread.

    And ...?

    You contnue to speak in vague generalities.

    This has become a platitude.

    and.?

    Are you talking about the lost Catholic church? They arent a standard for anything.

    More generalities I have no idea what this means.
     
  19. Salamander

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    Great! A topic to complain about people complaining:laugh:
     
  20. gb93433

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    The difference is doing something about the problem rather than sitting on the sideline and pointing the finger. When we are engaged in helping people it is very difficult to help the very people we are crticizing. Leaders lead.

    It does not seem to be in accordance with Phil 4:8.

    If we spend our time thinking about the ills of society we soon become a bitter pickle instead of giving the world hope in Christ. If I focus on the ills of the church in America it seems rather hopeless too. We can spend our time focusing on a small god rather than the God who is. It is Christ who gives hope to the world, not our complaints of the world.

    We should be more and more encouraged when we see a greater difference between the world and genuine Christians. I do not see how we can complain about the world when we am encouraged in Christ. When we see a dying hopeless world we see a world in need of Christ not a world we need to judge, condemn, and complain about. I cannot imagine anyone going to see their favorite sports team win a game and come home complaing to everyone how bad the opposing team was.
     

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