Christmas -What is it anyway

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Alex Mullins, Dec 1, 2001.

  1. Alex Mullins

    Alex Mullins
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    During the last 10 years or so I have been exposed to the idea that Christmas and the whole idea of Christmas is a man-made time of year. I am hearing things such as "Christ never was in Christmas", "It is a pagan holiday, invented by the Catholic Church - It was originally known as Christ-Mass".

    Having searched the scriptures, I find no mention of Dec 25 as being Christ's birthday, not do I find any commands, instructions or directions that we are to celebrate His birth at all.

    I know that, to much of the world, this time of year is a time of parties and excesses and, to most of the world, Christ really is not in Christmas any more than He is in their lives at any other time of the year.

    Yet, I find the music of Christmas very beautiful and worshipful. I also enjoy the decorations, the lights, the outpouring of love as families get together, the giving and receiving part of the season.

    Part of me wants to decorate our home with lights and ornaments, dress a tree and decorate inside and out. Another part of me says, "What signal are we sending to our Grandkids, who look at these things in awe and amazement?"

    If these things are being done as an outpouring of love and adoration to Christ, why do string these decorations only from Nov 30 - Dec 31 each year? Why not all year long?

    Is anyone out their in Baptistland or Christianland facing these questions at this time of year? Can anyone enlighten me?

    Is Christ pleased with my decorations?

    Any help, support or insight into the origins of this so-called holiday would be appreciated.

    Thanks and God Bless.

    Alex
     
  2. Revelation

    Revelation
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    If you search the net for the origin of christmas and all of the trimmings that go with it (mistle toe, holly..etc) you will discover that YES it was brought in from the rcc from their pagan worshipping.

    Does Jesus want us to celebrate with others in this? Think about it, it is pagan and I challenge you to search the scriptures about paganism. Then seek the Lord regarding this. He will answer you. He answered me.
    Nobody but the Lord can make you change your mind. This tradition has you trapped because every one in this world celebrates it. When you say to people that you don't celebrate it they think you are either a JW or mormon or what ever. I just say it is a pagan holiday and don't want any part of it.


    ALL OF CHRISTMAS IS A LIE AND WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES SATAN

    Let God be true and every man a liar.


    Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Revelation 4:8b
    Revelation ;)
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

    Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only Christians know the reality behind the pagan origins and the even more pagan capitalistic engines that drive our modern Christmas celebration.

    But Christians are warned explicitly NOT to judge anyone's celebration of a particular day as "holy" or not. That seems pretty clear.

    So if I opt to put up a pagan tree covered with pagan lights and sing pagan tunes as part of my worship of Christ, christians have a bible mandate to keep their big mouth shut! :eek: :eek:
     
  4. rlvaughn

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    I am moving the 'Christmas - What is it Anyway' topic to the "General Baptist Discussions" forum. I believe it fits better there, and possibly will receive better response.
     
  5. Larry

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    It’s not to often that I disagree with you Dr. Bob (excluding Bible Versions) but this time I think that you are misapplying scripture. The context of the verse you alluded to is the Feasts. They were a shadow of things to come. If I’m misreading you just point it out.


    Colossians 2:16-17
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    As a IFB I’m sure that you are aware of dozens of admonitions in scriptur to reprove rebuke, prove all things, come out from among them etc.

    Christ-Mass is pagan as all get out. However I take a position more along the lines as Paul when he spoke of eating meat offered unto Idols, 1 Corinthians 8:4-13
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    The date for the celebration of Christmas was not set until the time of Julius I, bishop at Rome from AD337-352.

    Before that, Christians celebrated the birth of Christ at various times of the year. Some observed the 1st or 6th of January, some the 29th of March (near Passover), some the 29th of September (near Feast of Tabernacles).

    With the introduction of many pagan peoples into "christianity" in the late 4th Century, it became associated with their Winter Solstice Feast.

    Julius made inquiries into all the traditions and found that the December 25th date had the most traditional support.
     
  7. Amazing_Grace

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    I don't believe it is pagan to sing hymns celebrating the birth of our Savior. I don't believe it is pagan to put out a nativity which depicts the scene. I don't believe it is pagan to celebrate His birth, whether or not it spells out in the Bible that we should. I doubt He gets upset to see people celebrating His birth.

    We as Christians are so happy and thankful that He was born, why wouldn't we want to celebrate that fact?

    As for the rest, I do not see how gathering with loved ones and sharing gifts with them is such an abomination. We give out gifts for other occasions, why is this so different?

    I will never understand why people throw hissy fits over celebrating this holiday. For the last two years I have found myself reflecting on His birth and what it has done for us, and I am joyous about it and of course want to celebrate it. Humans like to celebrate everything wonderful the Lord has given us. We celebrate being alive on our birthdays, we celebrate our marriages on anniversaries. It is only natural that we would want to recognize the birth of our Savior, who has given us so much!
     
  8. Alex Mullins

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    Thanks all for your help and insight into Christmas.

    It seems that if one feels it is a pagan holiday and cannot see any of Christ in Christmas....one should not celebrate that.

    It is too easy to spend a considerable amount of money to buy things for people that they really do not need and did not ask for

    I tend to agree with Amazing Grace, that if we could just extract the good things out of Christmas, the worship, church programs, the family gatherings, the music...even if some of it is not biblically accurate, the lights and ornaments, the time away from work to relieve the stress and pressure of life the rest of the year....it could be a wonderful time. Just remember who it we celebrate and keep it in perspective.

    Take time to tell someone what Jesus has done for you. Take the time to invite a lonely person into your home to share the love of Jesus Christ (and perhaps some turkey).

    God Bless and have a merry Christmas.

    ALEX
     
  9. Walrus

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    The TRUE meaning of Christmas is a celebration of the Incarnation! How could we NOT celebrate it?!?!

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Revelation:
    it was brought in from the rcc from their pagan worshipping.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Tell us what you're REALLY thinking about the rcc!
     
  10. Kenneth77

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    Hey Bro. Alex,
    I too have been dealing with this. I have opted to not put up the Christ-Mass Tree. I've also thought about not saying Merry Christmas. This is for one reason only. I study Catholicism right much, Mass is an abomination a mockery of Jesus' True Sacrifice done once for All on the Cross. To say Christmas or Christ-Mass is a disgrace in my mind.

    On that note, what does everyone think of saying Merry Saviours Day? Since everyday is Gods, why not say the Truth. We have no idea when Christ came into the world as human flesh. Just a thought.

    I am still very much dealing with the issue of Christmas and Easter. But I don't want to be a stumbling block for myself and deffinately not for others.

    I guess it is up to the individual Christian. But for me, I just can't celebrate Christmas like I did even last year. The Bible says we aren't susposed to observe days, but yet we observe Christmas, birthdays, etc.

    But then again, I am young(24) a fairly new Christian(3 yrs.) so I know there is still a whole lot for me to learn. My pastor is in his 70's and says there is still alot he has to learn.

    So I'll keep praying and searching, trusting that God will show me what to do.

    God bless, Kenneth
     
  11. free2know

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    This whole discussion really amuses me,let me tell you why.....the most strictest, toughest IFB preacher I know on the planet once had the christmas tree debate and even the head pastor of said church decided a christmas tree was ok. He was the most legalistic person I ever met in my life other than those who left in huff because the Christmas tree "was of Satan" [​IMG]

    Just my two cents...if it causes the rest of world to pause and see what we are celebrating and why....don't you see Christmas as a good thing. Let's keep this in perspective shall we?

    Did you'all ever hear the story of the theologians who were most distressed trying to figure out how many angels could dance on the head of a pin? ;0) Enough said..
     
  12. tyndale1946

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    Jeremiah Chapter 10
    1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
    2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
    3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
    4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

    Now I don't know what anyone else sees in this but it sure looks like a Christmas Tree to me... What are your thoughts?... Brother Glen :eek:
     
  13. Jesterhole

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    The Christians decided to have their main holidays (Christmas and Easter) on already established pagan celebrations of the Winter and Summer solstice, seeing as how it would be easier to convert a established holiday to their own purposes rather than to have to try and start a new one...

    -Drew
     
  14. Walrus

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 'I AM' hath sent me:
    Hey Bro. Alex,
    I study Catholicism right much, Mass is an abomination a mockery of Jesus' True Sacrifice done once for All on the Cross. To say Christmas or Christ-Mass is a disgrace in my mind.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Kenneth, why don't you state that where Catholics can reply to it?
     
  15. Kenneth77

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    Walrus, if you want to dig back through all the pages of posts, you'd see I already have.
    What I say about Catholics on the Baptist only forums, believe me, I've said on the other religions forum. If you'd like to start a thread on the other religions forum on this issue of Christ-mass, then go ahead.

    God bless, Kenneth
     
  16. free2know

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    What the "jester" has posted regarding the timing of the holidays.....I was taught that too...albeit in my liberal secular religion courses. I have to say, it makes sense...I believe the idea was to usurp paganism by negating the pagan with the holy.

    As for that tree scripture....hmmm....I guess you could interpret it that way, but like I said, I know alot of hardcore fundamentalist who would fight you about it.
     
  17. Jaybird

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    :confused: Tyndale1946 through in some scripture that no one seems willing to address. That doesn't suprise me as I have just come to this site for the first time and have studied many threads. Lot's of opinions given, very little scripture. That is the way of the World.
    Christmas in my home. We don't decorate, we don't help out Hallmark, by sending cards to everyone we know. We do send them to people we haven't seen in a while, but with a letter. Don't have a tree as we are convicted that Jer 10, does scripturally show what God thinks about it. We get together with family and friends, we have a gift exchange in our immediate family only and limit the purchase and/or gift amount. Credit Cards cannot be used or any debt incurred. We spend time in prayer and worship Christmas morning, after we exchange gifts. (Let's be real the kids ain't gonna sit still if you don't). We try to do something during the holidays for outreach, and use the conversation of Christmas to witness to others.

    Christmas and the way or if you celebrate it is a conviction, Not a PERSONAL conviction, but one that you'll get from the Lord if you really want it. Problem is today that Christians don't want to give up their worldy pleasure.

    Is it wrong to celebrate Christmas YES! Is it wrong to celebrate the Lord during what world calls a Holiday, NO. Christmas is a great tool to tell others of Jesus Christ since his birth is brought up by many. But we as Christians are set apart, we are a peculiar people, we ought not to do as the world does, Romans 12:1,2 tells that we should be transformed by the renewing of our minds. We ought to Ask God what he thinks. Search his scriptures and if we are honest with him and ourselves, we will find ourselves not putting so much emphasis on this worldly celebration. Is Christmas your God, or do you really think your using for the Lord's Glory. Try this next year. (I will boldly state that most of you won't even consider this, but...) How willing are you...

    Next Christmas

    1. Don't Decorate in traditional Christmas themes (Col 2:8) Do enjoy the light displays of others and save electricity and Do let your light shine before men. (Mat 5:16)
    2. Don't put up a Tree like the heathen(Jer 10). Do tell others about a different ugly tree, that Jesus died on.
    3. Don't send mass produced cards to everyone on the planet (See 1) Do hand out bible tracts, send cards to folks who no longer live near you, and put a tract in their telling about the Lord
    4. Don't say Merry Christ-mass!, Do Say "Have you heard about what Jesus did after he was Born"?
    5. Don't sing songs about Saint Nick, etc. Do sing songs about Jesus and his birth.
    6. Don't preach to others about their walk and the traditions they follow, unless they ask, (this thread was started by someone who asked. I want to point that out as their was scripture given by Doctor Griffin stating we shouldn't judge anyone's celebration. I'll tell you this I can't judge a man's heart, but I can judge his actions, and if those actions) and do it in LOVE.

    I could go on. Bottomline ask God what he thinks about Christmas, See what his word says about it.

    Finally a lot folks in this and other threads make the statement "I don't see anything wrong with it", Or "I don't see how it is bad", and like questions. Stop and think about the first 3 words in those statements, "I don't see" To the unsaved all of this is foolishness, they don't understand, tell them the Good news. The saved, well, II Pet 1:5-11 gives a little insight. Which is more important giving up a little worldly tradition and pleasing God. Or keeping a little worldly tradition to please yourself.
    ;)
     

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