"Christmas"

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Harold Garvey, Dec 25, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should we have the term in the Bible? Isn't it a relative term by event and descriptiopn that a modern reader should have it in today's version?
     
  2. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    And just which passage do you wish to put it in?
     
  3. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,635
    Likes Received:
    45
  4. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, probably it should go somewhere in Luke 2, "And this was the first Christmas". Then there is that final and eternal day in Revelation where all those bought by His blood will be massed together round Him. Wouldn't it be advantageous for anyone to see why Christians celebrate the real meaning of Christmas and find it right there in Scripture? How could anyone object? Scrooge just might!
     
  5. Trotter

    Trotter
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/6412.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Christmas" wasn't established until a few hundred years after the fact. The date was figured through conjecture alone, as shepherds don't stay in the fields on winter nights. The NT does not record the date of Jesus's birth for a reason... it is not really an important detail.

    There is no need to include yet another late-era occurance in God's word. Had He wanted it there He would have put it there.

    I'm no Scrooge (for the most part) but I would oppose something like this.
     
  6. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, now we'll have people denying Christmas as the gathering together to worship the Christ-child and objecting to those who will be massed together to sing the new song around his throne. Seems too many are adversely effected by the commercialism and forget the true meaning.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Dead on. There is nothing remotely Biblical about Christmas. We love it, celebrate, and use the occasion to reach out into our community and remember that God sent a child to redeem to world.

    But those choices are abiblical.
     
  8. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have never considered Christmas to be anything other than biblical. Did not Simeon rejoice at seeing the Christchild? Is not this a definite indicaton this gathering in Luke 2 is what our rejoicing, celebrating is to be? "Abiblical" appears to be an invented word used in an attempt to acredit something with a total conjecture just as a means to agree with some one else. I might have to conclude dynamic equivalence should never be used to formulate the word of God into a modern understanding if I were to agree with the sentiments expressed by Trotter and C4K above.
     
  9. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Come on, now.

    we can't use new words? That's ridiculous.

    You're using a computer right now. Computers are abiblical.
     
  10. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find computers to fall underthe heading of "mens' witty inventions", but I do not find the term "abiblical" in any online search except where men have made it up as described earlier. Christmas is not made up. There are those found celebrating the birth of Christ in Luke 2 and that type of celebration carried on throughout Revelation and into eternity. Something found in the Bible is not ever, by those who fabricated the term, "abiblical". Christmas, biblically speaking, is a season. We find angels and shepherds rejoicing at the birth of Christ. Then we find at least Simeon rejoicing at having seen Christ as a babe as the salvation Jesus would bring. Are we to tuck tail and hide because the world takes another word distinctively Christian and allow them to corrupt it into their making and allow this to go on? I say STAND! At least it should be placed in those so often referred to FOOTNOTES!
     
  11. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't see a need to add anything to Scripture that isn't in the early manuscripts. No needd for a change.
     
  12. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Harold here desperately trying to conjure up justification for "Easter" in Acts 12:4?

    :laugh:
     
  13. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    Exactly. If God didn't put in in the Bible, and it's not something we need to add in to properly translate Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic to English, then it should not be there.
     
  14. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then why do so many versions do just that?

    English didn't even exist then. Christmas did exist, but not in that exact word.
     
  15. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Um, God didn't put the Christmas story in the Bible?

    I'm totally amazed at some of the responses here. The other one response is offtopic and has been reported, but due to the bias so often seen here, I doubt it will get removed.

    Since Luke 2 IS the Christmas story, why is it you think it doesn't properly translate the Greek?

    Are you saying Luke 2 doesn't belong in the Bible?


    Can you give example of what you refer to as proper translation into English?
     
  16. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW, I'm still waiting for that dictionary reference to "abiblical"

     
    #16 Harold Garvey, Dec 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2009
  17. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Christmas didn't exist, just the pagan feast of Saturnalia--the worship of the sun-god on December 25--the first visible day that the days were getting longer after the shortest day of the year when they thought that their sun-god was going to disappear altogether.

    The early Christians did not celebrate the birth of Christ. There is no evidence that they did. What historical evidence can you bring forth that the early Christians celebrated the birth of Christ? When was the first so-called celebration or as you say "Christmas"? It wasn't in the time of the apostles or in the first century.

    As for the word Christmas, it is pagan in nature. "Christmas" = Christ + mass. Do you celebrate the mass of Christ? Do you go to midnight mass on Christmas eve to sacrifice again the blood and body of Jesus Christ? Is transubstantiation a Biblical doctrine for you? You want to incorporate blasphemy into the Word of God?
     
  18. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, I won't give the credence as you do to pagan rituals.

    try reading Luke 2:10-28 and tell me no one was celebrating.

    1 : a Christian feast on December 25
    If you're going to keep giving credence to false teachings then that is your perogative, but nowhere have I done this nor will I.

    I celebrate the birth of Christ throughout the entire Christmas season and have only been in a Catholic church once to perform some construction work for a company I used to work for.

    Is it always your intewntion to denigrate your brethren by suggesting things like the above and without any indication your suspicion is warranted?
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Why not? That was the only historical event that took place on December 25 in the first century. Why not deal with reality and not sentimentality?
    Again, this says nothing about "the mass of Christ" or Christmas, a solely English word. The New Testament was not written in English, but Greek. Perhaps you should instruct Luke about that mistake. Luke 2:10-18 deals with the history of the birth of Christ, not a pagan festival that took place on December 25. Historically speaking the birth of Christ was more likely to have been around spring time, probably in April. December 25 was just a pagan festival and that is all. Let history speak for itself.
    The dictionary also defines "Christian" as Christendom including all Catholics, Oneness Pentecostals, all the cults, etc. Do you include yourself in that group, or does your Christianity fall under a more select group--say those that are truly born again, or those that have put their faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. That is not how the dictionary defines "Christian." Thus your definition is flawed from the beginning. They showed on the news last night that some of the most decorated nations celebrating Christmas were Muslim nations. Do you include yourself among those people?
    That doesn't take away from the fact that the word is an English word meaning "mass of Christ," and inherent in it is the day that they celebrate transubstantiation or the sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ again.
    History is true, and rules over sentiment every time.
     
  20. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    Of all the silly threads i have read on here (some of which I started) this may be the silliest.

    Maybe we ought to nominate the top 10 best and/or worst threads.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...