Christ's Nature

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    May notions surround the nature of Christ. Some try to de-humanize Him in order to make Him above sins influence. Believing that man is born in sin, all sorts of theories erupt to free Christ from the logical consequences of that manufactured dogma.

    Why don’t we start by simply developing a list of Scriptures concerning Christ and His nature, and see where that leads us. I will start the list with a Scripture found in the OT as a prophesy concerning the then future Messiah. Feel free to add as many as one so desires.

    De 18:15 ¶ The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, OF THY BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO ME; unto him ye shall hearken;
     
  2. NateT

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    Philippians 2:5-8 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, 8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
     
  3. BobRyan

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    In Romans 5 Christ is the "second Adam".

    In 2Cor 5 we find that God made "Him who knew NO SIN to become sin in our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him".

    Christ is the lamb of God without spot or blemish.

    But in Phil 2 we find this important statement

    6 who, although He existed in the form of God[/b], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
    7 but emptied Himself, [b]taking the form of a bond-servant
    , and being made in the likeness of men.


    8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

    In Matt 4 we are told that Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness. Yes Christ REALLY was tempted -- for "real".
     
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I fully agree. Now Scripture tells us that he was tempted in ALL points as we are. How are we tempted? James tells us that we are tempted when we a drawn away by our own lusts and enticed. In this case, one of Christ’s strong desires (lust) was the desire for food. Another must have been tendency or the desire men have towards power or control.

    But God be thanked that He did not yield to those strong desires (lusts of the flesh) that Satan brought to His attention at this weak moment of His life, and that by remaining true became our Pure and Holy Advocate Redeemer and substitutionary sacrifice for our sins, and not our only, but for the sins of the entire world.
     
  5. LeBuick

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    Right, the duality of Christ says he was 100% man and 100% God. You do the math.
     
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: When we eliminate the ‘theoretical possibility’ of Christ being able to sin, or being born with some other nature than we are, you eliminate Him being able to be tempted 'in all points as we are', and thus His humanity.
     
  7. LeBuick

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    Why do you say it was theoretically impossible for Christ to sin?
     
  8. Brandon C. Jones

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    Is this a monophysitist thread? :laugh:
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Is it your position that Christ's nature was totally corrupt and depraved as is ours according to Romans 3 so that in Romans 7 Paul could say "I know that in me - that is in my flesh -dwelleth no good thing" (a good point made recently by Lebuick).

    Christ was not tempted as is the homosexual or the drug addict or the gambling addict or the drunk - he did not start with any of those vices "in HIM". Notice that when Satan Tempts Christ in the wilderness -- Matt 4 the temptations have the same principles as they do for us - but the content is such that we could NEVER be tempted in that way. NONE of us are tempted to exercise our God powers and turn stones into bread to satisfy our 40-days-no-food burning hunger.

    So yes Christ was tempted - but no - he did not have the depraved nature seen below --

    Rom 3

    The Sinful nature of all mankind –

    9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks
    are all under sin;
    10 as it is written, "" THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS
    , NOT EVEN ONE;
    11 THERE IS
    NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD
    ;

    12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.''
    13 "" THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,'' "" THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS'';
    14 "" WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS'';
    15 "" THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
    16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
    17 AND
    THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.''
    18 "" THERE IS
    NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.''


    19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
    20 because by the
    works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. [/quote]


    By contrast it is observed that "by the works of the LAW CHRIST WAS justified even in His human sinless flesh".

    By contrast – only depravity “Dwells in us” by nature. We are “by nature the children of wrath” Eph 2:3-6.

    And as Paul points out in Rom 7 – IN him is only depravity apart from the New Creation

    Rom 7
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I fully agree Bob. The depraved nature you point out as described in Romans 3 comes from turning aside to sin and becoming useless. “ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS”

    Christ never allowed Himself to turn aside. He stayed the course of obedience. This text in NO way establishes imputed sin, original sin, or being born with a sinful nature as you falsely indicate. Those in the text turned aside and BECAME useless, not were born useless.
     
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I did not say that. I was inferring that it must be theoretically possible. BR and others claim it was not possible, not I. Ask BR the question. :)
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    How could God sin, I don't understand?
     
  13. LeBuick

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    Hold on HP, Jesus said John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Jesus was born of the flesh and flech is sinful by nature. How could he be human and not have the ability to sin? I believe he could sin but sinned not.

    What good would it have been to temp one who could not sin? Satan has bettter sense than that, look at Job.
     
  14. LeBuick

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    The Human son named Jesus could have gone against the will of the father? Could he not?
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    Though He had a body of flesh he was God and kept by God, to sin would mean that God himself sinned, or to weak to keep something He created by the Holy Ghost.

    No, He came to do the will of the Father. He was kept by the Father. He stood as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. To be able to go against the will of the Father would of destroyed the whole plan of God. No!

    If you want a picture of me to put up as avatar I send you one. ROFL;)

    I got to go to bed, I almost blacked out today preaching and coming home. Took my blood pressure and it was 62/43, thought sure I was going to have to go to emergency room.
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Oct 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2006
  16. LeBuick

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    Yes, he came to do the will but he still had the same fight within him that Paul described in the 7th chapter of Romans. Did he not? The temptation in the wilderness, where was this tempter? Was he within Christ and was Christ not alone in the wilderness?
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    within Christ? Are you saying that satan was within Christ. He was tempted alright but there was no way He could of give in to those temptations or all life would of been destroyed and all God planned would of been destroyed.

    He was of the Holy Ghost, He was God's son, He was God.
     
  18. LeBuick

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    I am saying the same fight with good and evel that you have. The war that is going on in your members is the same experiance Jesus had in the wilderness. He was warring with himself, his carnal with his divine. That is my understanding.
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    Well, I am not well so I got to go to bed.
    You and HP work this one out or I be back tomorrow.
    He also was Baptized. do you think He really needed to be or was it an example for us.
    good nite all.
     
  20. LeBuick

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    Good nite, I pray you feel better in the morning. Mst have been all that food you ate.

    He was baptized that all righteousness could be fulfilled...
     

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