Church Conventions = Business, not Missions

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by matt wade, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. matt wade

    matt wade
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  2. TCGreek

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    This article doesn't really illustrate anything but differences in strategies.
     
  3. Allan

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    I have to agree. It might be better if OP'er (matt wade) elaborates a little more on the issue as he sees it.
     
  4. Salty

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    The big difference between SBC and IBF is mission support. I notice your church supports a number of missionaries thru several mission boards. (BTW Those boards do have business meetings)
    Now, of those missionaries you support, how much time do they spend on furlough seeking to raise support? How many churches of theirs do not always send the support, how many churches have split or disbanded and no longer send support.
    With the SBC, once a missionary is approved, he is on the mission field preaching the Bible.
    We still have missions conferences - in fact our own association will be having one in the next two weeks, and I plan to visit some of our sister churches. These men will be able to present their ministry, without asking for money.

    I have been IBF previously, and I am familiar with their mission programs - and I do not find fault with it, just a different way of "doing business"
     
  5. matt wade

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    The business that I was speaking of is the political side of things you normally see in big businesses. There's comments being thrown around like, "There's a lot of nepotism and cronyism". It just seems that the administration of it all is overhead that really isn't needed. According to the article, the mission board has a 130 million dollar budget. That's a lot of money.
     
  6. matt wade

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    Yes, but we indivually support each of those missionaries. We send a set amount of money each month to each missionary you see listed. Money that we designate for the missionary doesn't get eaten up in administrative costs. We seperately contribute money to some mission boards, but that's a voluntary choice. We could stop that contribution at any time.

    And for the record...I'm not a fan of contributing to those mission boards :). I agree that some good is accomplished through them, but I think the money could go to better use.
     
  7. gb93433

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    I worked in big business for a Christian man and never experienced the politics I was met with in the SBC.
     
  8. saturneptune

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    Are you ever going to give it a rest?
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    Bitter liberals nothing more.
     
  10. Salty

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    I also noticed that some of your missionaries are under ABWE. I sat under a pastor who formally served overseas with ABWE. He told us that a % of his support was diverted to ABWE for home office expenses. I don't know if that is the policy, but if you are that concerned, I would recommend you check it out - then let us know.

    BTW, that pastor I sat under was a home missionary under Galilean Baptist Mission, their policy was that the missionary retained 100% of support given, and the church he pastored would give 10% of its general offering to the GBM.

    Note: Galilean Baptist Mission merged in 1985 with Fellowship of Baptists for Home Missions and formed Baptist Missions for North America and in 1990 was re-organized as Baptist Church Planters
     
  11. Joseph M. Smith

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    I don't think so. Nobody with a whiff of liberal thinking has been elected to any SBC Board in recent years. Rather it is the inevitable implosion of the mean-spirited authoritarianism of the conservative resurgence. Some of us predicted that those who led it would find that it would go too far, something like the French Revolution. And it has.

    Used to be a Southern Baptist and glad of it. Now glad I used to be.
     
  12. Tom Bryant

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    I am actively involved in the SBC and there is politics. Politics is simply the art of getting things done through people. All of us are involved in politics in our church. If we want to move the direction of the church in a certain direction, we know who we have got to get on board and who can help us move it along among the people.

    So yes, it is political. Hammond came into NAMB with the morale of the board at an all time low because of the previous person who was let go. So he brought in some friends to help him. If you go to a big church wouldn't you bring on to staff someone whose work you know? Now if these guys he has brought on are not up for the task, then that does call into question his abilities as an administrator.

    Right now, all denominational structures are being questioned. As they ought to be. The question for the SBC is how can we get our mission done effectively throughout the world at every level from the local church to world wide missions. What you see in the GCR and the issues being presented by NAMB and the IMB is what those new structures are going to look like.

    So, Brother Smith, you think you are going for some hyperbole in the French Revolution smack talk. If you're comfortable and happy and in the will of the Lord by not being in the SBC, wonderful. I was part of the IFB for all my life. I don't talk smack about them. They do things one way, we do stuff the other. God uses both.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    Frank Page was quite "whiffy".

    More liberal bitterness with no foundation.
     
  14. gb93433

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    When are you are willing to face the truth instead of being so ignorant about what you blindly support?
     
  15. gb93433

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    There is a diference between pragmatic politics and believeing God by faith in prayer.

    Jesus gave the vision, the methodology, and the example. If we follow Jesus what else is left?
     
  16. preachinjesus

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    Someone else has said it above, this is more about methodology than anything else...well when it comes to missions.

    The SBC is, imho, on balance far more of a positive than a negative. I am absolutely convinced that cooperative missions works and we are stronger together than apart in this one issue.

    The article made this point: "There's a lot of nepotism and cronyism," [David Thompson] said. "There's been a fair amount of that from the beginning. People were being brought in who weren't the best qualified, but were brought in by the director so they would do what he wanted, I guess."

    This is absolutely true, but it happened under the old guard too. Just the way things are going to be. Personally I don't ever want a denominational job, I've been to the IMB, NAMB, and Nashville buildings. Lots of people hiding out from God...and lots of people doing great things for churches. Its not my calling.

    Probably we're going to see the IMB and NAMB rolled together. It makes sense and is a good idea. We should sell off both campuses, buy more suitable (e.g. humble) accomodations for missions work and use the profits to start 10,000 new churches.

    This isn't a liberal and conservative thing (honestly I don't think there were ever true theological liberals heavily influencing the convention...mostly moderates.) The drum beat of "liberal, liberal, liberal...evil, evil, evil" has been over done and run off a generation of faithful ministers who want to do something about the Gospel, not talk about it.

    The great, the absolutely terrific thing, about the local Southern Baptist church where I get to serve...I can not only give to support the cooperative program but we also have about 15 missionary families we directly support who have been raised up and sent out from our church. That is awesome ministry! That is a great thing about being Southern Baptist!

    The convention junk is just that...junk. I don't go to the annual gathering because its a flat waste of time. Too much politics over Gospel, personality over ministry, dogma over preference, and so forth and so on. For far too long we've been too busy telling people what we, as a convention, are agaisnt rather than showing them what we're for.

    Just my thoughts...let the slings and arrows commence! :thumbs:
     
  17. Tom Bryant

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    Of course there is. but I read in Acts 6, where the early church had a problem so they brought it to the people. That is politics.


    Are you a pastor? Have you had to lead people from where they are to where Jesus wants them to be? You would know what else is left.

    If Jesus gave the methodology then we ought to be preaching in synagogues or on a hillside.
     
  18. gb93433

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    That is called discipleship. There is nothing more or less than following Christ.

    Jesus' ministry was one of true discipleship in following Him. He trained His disciples, sent them out two by two, and taught them to make disciples. What else is left? He trained His disciples to follow Him and taught them to teach others who also taught others. We are followers of Christ today because of faithful followers who preceded us. The basic principle is outlined in 2 Tim 2:2.
     
  19. gb93433

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    They also had their focus of ministry in mind and let godliness rule rather than egotism. Too much of politics is not godliness but egotism in action. Christ centered action is not always about politics and being a winner. Jesus did not always win debates. He told the truth. In politics there are winners and losers and the loser may be about truth.
     
  20. gb93433

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    Businesses fail for many of the same reasons. Ever notice how businesses are almost always started by young people and established businesses die by the experienced? The same is true of many organizations too.
     

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