Church Denied into Local SBC Association

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ruiz, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Ruiz

    Ruiz
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    Daviess-McLean Baptist Association (SBC) in Owensborro Kentucky refused Pleasant Valley Community Church from joining the local association because they are reformed. What are your thoughts about this issue? Should an SBC Association forbid a church from joining the association merely because they are reformed?
     
  2. Salty

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    IF they so desire - yes -
    If I had been a messenger, I am not sure how I would have voted. I would want more information.

    On the other hand there would be nothing to stop Pleasant Valley from starting a new association if other churches are interested.
    Remember - several States/commonwealths have two conventions.


    Back in Aug, the Association also dis-fellowshiop Journey Fellowship (formerly Seven Hills Bap) due to a decision by the church allowing PFLAG to meet at their church. Association voted 242-24 to approve removal of Journey Fellowship,
     
    #2 Salty, Oct 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  3. preachinjesus

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    Can you provide a link for reference? This is an interesting story, but I can't comment until I see substantiated claims.
     
  4. Ruiz

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    There is no link, I heard from one of the local association pastors. I have many connections in that area (it is the town where I was born and my father was born and my ancestors since right after the Revolutionary War).

    The issue was that the church was reformed.
     
  5. preachinjesus

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    Saying we "heard it from other pastors" is not much more different than gossip imho. I'd be careful with such things. There are usually about nine or ten different angles on a story.

    I'd bet there is more than meets the eye wiith this issue, and challenge whether it is an issue or not.
     
  6. Ruiz

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    From my personal association with this association, I have no doubts of this story because I know the litmus in this church. I know what has been said in the past by this association from first hand experience. While I do not have the minutes of the meeting, I believe my sources are more reliable than the media itself as this comes from a respected Pastor in the area. I will tend to give a pastor more respect than the media.
     
  7. Ruiz

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    BTW, the same association did oust a pro-homosexual church. I do agree with that decision.
     
  8. Salty

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    Can you share the name of the pastor with us?


    But my answer still stands - as an independent association - they have the right to refuse admittance to any church that they so deem
     
  9. Ruiz

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    I can share one Pastor as he has posted it on the internet. He was not the first person I heard it from, though, and I do not think he was at the association meeting. However, he did talk to the church involved:

    https://plus.google.com/u/0/101717651124886425803/posts
     
  10. Havensdad

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    If its true, then it is sickening. They should start their own local association.
     
  11. quantumfaith

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    Associations like churches are also autonomous. They may set whatever parameters they wish for churches to cooperate within their association. Would an association of churches committed to being reformed permit a church which was decidedly not reformed into their association? I don't think it "sickening". I also do not know all the facts and "history" related to this incident.
     
  12. Havensdad

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    Associations also have criteria for being a member of said organization. If the association says, "We are an Arminian association" then fine. Or to say "We are a reformed association"...also fine. To make no other criteria but Southern Baptist doctrine, and then deny someone for being something you just don't like (but still fits your criteria), is sickening and very much un-Christian in character.
     
  13. Ruiz

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    I do not have a problem with an association choosing who they will and will not associate with, that is a part of being an association.

    However, you should make your stance a part of your doctrinal beliefs. This association banned someone for not believing in their view of marriage. This association adopted the 2000 BF&M, so the association clearly made a stand on marriage and should demand all their churches to adhere or the church should remove itself from the association. The association was right in standing on her doctrine.

    However, taking a stand not in your association's doctrinal statement I think is beyond the scope of your Association.
     
  14. gb93433

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    The longer I live the less I am surprised by anything anymore.

    Eccl. 1:9, "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun."
     
  15. Ruiz

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    I am not thinking this is horrible, because an association has this right. However, I think it is wrong to not make this a part of your doctrinal standards and uphold it as though it was.

    The original Philadelphia Baptist Association upheld a strong doctrinal standards and said that it was the duty of churches to adhere or leave. If they didn't leave, the PBA has the obligation to kick you out.

    My problem is that this is not a part of their doctrinal standards. For the homosexual church, this is right because it is Biblical and they made it a part of their doctrinal standards. However, on the reformed issue, it was not a part of their doctrinal standards.
     
  16. John Toppass

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    So far it is merely hearsay, there for gossip and I can not comment on it.
     
  17. gb93433

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    Does a church or organization have the right to do something that is clearly unbiblical such as creating divisiveness and be part of a group that claims to believe the Bible. If a church does something unbiblical then it should be disciplined by the group that holds it accountable. Who will hold a church accountable in cases which are more than just opinion?

    A friend of mine who planted churches in Ethiopia for 23 years told me that the churches were held accountable in the group he was a part of. If there was trouble the leaders of the regional association may come in for up to three days and work with the church to set it on the right path.

    Too often churches in America are allowed to continue to stray with little or no accountability and become more and more sick. Years ago I was in a church that had good organization but the regional leaders had no training in helping the churches get well and so the church eventually died due to keeping a man who spoke well but lived a lie and the leaders wondered why the Holy Spirit was not at work. When the leaders did nothingb I resigned and the church died within a few months.
     
  18. Ruiz

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    You just did
     
  19. Ruiz

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    GB,

    There is much that I agree with you on this situation and if you read all my statements, you must see that we have much agreement.

    Do I believe that a church should be held accountable for the doctrinal standards listed by the organization? Of course! The Philadelphia Baptist Association, when founded, said as much. However, they also said that areas that were not listed in the doctrinal standards should be areas of liberty. Thus, while everyone in the Philadelphia Baptist Association must believe in believer's baptism, a church may believe in tri-baptism and some may only do a baptism under the water once. There was liberty.

    The same goes with this association. If they placed as a part of their doctrinal standards a prohibition against reformed theology, I have no qualms with their action. As well, if they decided that this was a serious issue and needed to address this issue now, they should vote likewise.

    Yet, their doctrinal standards do not prohibit Reformed Theology nor is it being sought to enshrine an anti-Reformed view into their doctrinal statement. They maintain the 2000 BF&M, which is a good doctrinal statement that allows both reformed and non-reformed to enjoy fellowship.
     
  20. Tom Bryant

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    Obviously, the Ass'n can do whatever they choose in terms of letting a church associate with them. But there might be other issues other than just simply, and I'm simplifying, the TULIP issue. It might be that they are not congregational rule, but elder led, but completely elder ruled with the pastor being chosen by the elders and other issues not subject to the congregation but entirely by a group of elders as in a presbyterian form of church gov't.

    Maybe that's an issue also.

    If it's based entirely on soteriology, I would disagree with their decision completely.
     

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