Church Discipline

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mark Osgatharp, Jan 4, 2006.

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Does your church practice discipline?

  1. Yes

    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Church discipline has apparently become a very rare practice among modern day Baptists. By church discipline I mean the practice of excluding impenitently immoral persons from the fellowship of the church as per I Corinthians chapter 5.

    This is a poll to see how many of the churches represented in this forum practice church discipline.
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    I daresay, if we started making the sinner stay out of the sanctuary, we would have no one to preach to.

    Let he that is without sin among you, cast the first stone.

    Get the beam out of thine own eye and you shall see clearly to take the mote out of thy brother's eye
     
  3. Linda64

    Linda64
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    I voted "NO" because my husband and I have not been going to this church for very long--since June of last year (approximately 6 months). There has been no incidence during that time that required church discipline. We really need to be there longer to make a better determination.

    BTW--this is a good topic--thanks
     
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    A. Being disciplined by the church does not mean being excluded from attending worship services. It means being excluded from communion and other privledges of membership and, in Paul's words, "handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh."

    B. Since you object to church discipline, how to you interpret I Corinthians chapter 5?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  5. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Amen.

    And common, Mark, If you were banned from communion from a church would you attend it's services? Get real.

    I believe in Church discipline, but not over simple things. In extreme cases.

    That said, the only reason for discipline is to help the person, not hurt them.

    The Church is a hospital for sinners.
    Not a shrine for the saints.
    (heard that somewhere)
    And never should one church discipline someone from another.

    I would rather have 1 sinner in the congregation than the pews filled with self-righteous.

    (oops, that didn't make sense, because the self-righteous are sinners.)
    If we run them off, how are they ever going to here the gospel?
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    The thing is, the man that was judged in 1 Corinthians 5 was a member of the local body. Paul did judge and say to put that one from among them. That man later repented and returned the church was instructed the church to receive him back into the fold in 2 Corinthians.

    But we cannot just meet those we deem to be sinners at the door and tell them they cannot come in and hear the gospel.
     
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    We have a man who regularly attends our church who we excommunicated several years ago. Ironically, after several years of absence, he recently came back, openly repented of his sin, and asked for our forgiveness - which we freely offered - but did not and has not joined the church. But he is more regular in attendance than some of our members.

    So why, I'm wondering, did you say "Amen" to Standingfirm's contradiction of church discipline?

    No one said anything about running anyone off. All I have said is that we should obey the Biblical injunction to excommunicate the impenitently immmoral from church fellowship. You agreed with that so I don't see why you are still finding fault.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    I never said we should. I simply said we should obey I Corinthians chapter 5. You do believe we should obey that Scripture, don't you?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim
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  10. SeekingTruth

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    I don't think 1 Cor. 5 is speaking of one who is not a church member, nor do I believe Mark is. Certainly we cannot meet the sinner at the door and turn him/her away. If we did that who would stand at the door fo "all have sinned"?

    I voted no, because my church has not practiced discipline among its members. There are men who are drunkards and wife abusers. There are un-married women who have had multiple births out of wedlock. Yet no action is taken. When the subject is raised, we here "You can't judge people", or "That would be un-Christian". and other feel good phrases.

    Mark is correct. Those who consistently live in their former non-Biblical life style, be it drugs, sexual promiscuity, gambling, or any other of the lifestyles condemned by scripture, and who refuse to change should be excommunicated and allowed to re-join after acknowledgin the sin, asking forgiveness from God, then apologizing to the church. Of course, this pre-supposes the church has attempted to restore the wayward member to proper order.
     
  11. gb93433

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    The majority of leaders in most churches are disibedient by not discipling people as commanded in Mt. 28:19,20. How can a disobedient leadership effectively discipline church members?
     
  12. Brother Ian

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    We have a psuedo form of discipline at our church. Occasionally, the pastor will talk to someone over an issue, but I have never seen anyone brought before the church as would be appropriate for their behavior. For example, we had a man that had multiple affairs and his wife was told she needed to forgive him and move on. His behavior continued. Are we supposed to let that behavior continue without confronting him? No way. He was talked to by the pastor and his affairs continued. He should have been brought before the church, not to publically flog him, but to carry out the process of Scripture with the goal to restore him. He and his wife divorced and they both left the church. A sad story.

    I don't believe anyone is saying turn sinners away at the door, but someone who habitually participates in sin and is unrepenant must be kept from the flock after the measures of church dicipline are meted out. The ultimate goal of discipline is to restore the person to fellowship with Christ and the body, it's not to punish for wrongdoing.

    In my experience, if the person is saved, when their sinful behavior is brought to their attention, they are very likely to repent. It is the people who claim to be saved that are offended when their behavior is questioned.

    Church discipline is a mandate of Scripture and was designed not only to help us as Christians, but also protect the flock.
     
  13. mioque

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  14. drfuss

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    My interpretation of I Cor. 5 is that it was meant to apply to the leadership in the church. Otherwise, how could new christians remain in the church and grow in the Lord? Keep in mind that many first century churches were lead by a group of elders. I believe that Paul was referring to one of the elders who had influence over other christians, although the scripture does not indicate that. We don't know the actual situation.

    I think one reason this discipline is not applied today is that over 60 years ago, it was misused to exclude people like: women who wore makeup, etc. As a reaction to that type of misuse, church discipline was discontinued except in extreme cases.
     
  15. drfuss

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    My interpretation of I Cor. 5 is that it was meant to apply to the leadership in the church. Otherwise, how could new christians remain in the church and grow in the Lord? Keep in mind that many first century churches were lead by a group of elders. I believe that Paul was referring to one of the elders who had influence over other christians, although the scripture does not indicate that. We don't know the actual situation.

    I think one reason this discipline is not applied today is that over 60 years ago, it was misused to exclude people like: women who wore makeup, etc. As a reaction to that type of misuse, church discipline was discontinued except in extreme cases.
     
  16. Mark Osgatharp

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    Enough said about that.

    I don't see any evidence for this at all. I think the reason it has been largely discontinued is because the churches won't back the pastors up and the pastors are afraid to instigate discipline lest they be fired.

    And while there are churches which do practice discipline, many, if not most, have left it off altogether - even in the extreme cases. There are countless Baptist churches who have grossly immoral and impenitent people within their membership.

    One aspect of this which is very disturbing is that so many Baptists are involved in religious politics - trying to clean up the world - but won't even clean up their own churches.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  17. KCLorelei

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    I voted yes because our church practices discipline but only in extreme cases.

    We have a form of discipleship but it is focused too much on going through a course and not on the people's relationships to each other, IMO.

    Too often, once the course is finished, so is the relationship between the student and teacher.
     
  18. TaterTot

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    We dont kick em out, but we dont allow em to serve in a position of leadership if they are involved in an open lifestyle of disobedience
     
  19. StraightAndNarrow

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    Enough said about that.

    I don't see any evidence for this at all. I think the reason it has been largely discontinued is because the churches won't back the pastors up and the pastors are afraid to instigate discipline lest they be fired.

    And while there are churches which do practice discipline, many, if not most, have left it off altogether - even in the extreme cases. There are countless Baptist churches who have grossly immoral and impenitent people within their membership.

    One aspect of this which is very disturbing is that so many Baptists are involved in religious politics - trying to clean up the world - but won't even clean up their own churches.

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]They might have grossly immoral people on their membership books but my belief is they aren't saved no matter how many times they've walked down the aisle. That's the really bad part of this. We'v allowing lost people to remain in their illusion that they are saved.
     
  20. pastor chep day

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    yes, church discipline is needed to keep order in Gods churches. Jesus said it best in matthew 18:15-17 do your best to restore order in ones life befor making it public. but , if all fails then you must do as the bible commands. If you love your broyhers and sisters in Christ then you will do the right thing.
     

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