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Featured Church discipline?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Old Union Brother, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Jeff.....but what is the process for addressing the problem with the sinner? The church doesn't automatically excommunicate without investigating & trying to make it right with the offending individual correct? Nothing is done without the involvement of the sinner---ultimately its him or her that makes the choice & the ultimate goal is to correct & bring back to the fold.
     
    #21 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 6, 2013
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    The church had a choice to do it the Biblical way. They ran at him with a "delegation" which I do not see at all as the Biblical first step.


    John was pulled over for speeding and Mrs. Jones saw him. He brought dishonor to the church and thus he must stand before the entire church and make amends.

    Yes, the man was a drunkard and a railer. Who was the individual who went to him first?



    Since they didn't follow Matthew 18 properly, they absolutely did.
     
    #22 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  3. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    You are correct. We do not automatically excommunicate. We talk to the offender giving them an opportunity to explain his position or what happened. Generally the first statement that I make is Brother or Sister do you love the Church? Most of the time that takes care of the issue. Because if the answer is yes they will be willing to quit what they are doing and apoligize to the church. If it is no then obviously they have given a false witness about their experience of grace and did not repent.

    If you want we will talk about this.
     
    #23 Old Union Brother, Feb 6, 2013
  4. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    Annsni said
    Not a Matthew 18 situation. You like so many others cannot distinguish between a trespass and sin.

    Trespass- To commit any offense or to do any act that injures or annoys another; to violate any rule of rectitude to the injury of another.

    Sin--The voluntary departure of a moral agent from a known rule of rectitude or duty, prescribed by God; any voluntary transgression of the divine law, or violation of a divine command; a wicked act; iniquity.
     
    #24 Old Union Brother, Feb 6, 2013
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    It's not me fighting you on this one brother...a true church of Christ is one that is a community of believers all working together to glorify the Lord & with the ultimate goal to be sanctified. Too often today the church is not kept in its proper context and is not esteemed. A very sad state.
     
    #25 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 6, 2013
  6. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    Amen! And I realize you are not fighting me on this. We are told to keep ourselves unspotted from the world. To much of what has been said spots us and the church. And for that very reason I am withdrawing from this thread.
     
    #26 Old Union Brother, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You take ever opportunity to distort anything that Old Union Brother or I say. That being true all I can say is that you are deliberately being contentious. I would expect such from Zaac but not from you. Frankly, it is very sad!
     
    #27 OldRegular, Feb 6, 2013
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Bottom line, we use Matthew 18 for issues of church discipline. We also use Galatians 6:1 which says "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."
     
    #28 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what you use. i simply saw your response to the post by PJ!
     
    #29 OldRegular, Feb 6, 2013
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    What post? I haven't seen PJ post in any of these threads.
     
    #30 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  11. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Sissy, if I understand you correctly, you have a rather large church, and you are in a pretty big size town. So policing a bigger church maybe be a lot harder than a rural ORB church. My home church has 21 members, Brother Jeff's has around 100, or so, so policing it isn't as complicated, I guess.


    TBS, the first step is to go to the offender alone. Now, most ORB churches are small(in regards to other bigger populated churches), and are in rural areas. News travels fast in these places....or let's just call a spade a spade....and rightfuly call it gossip. In the situation Brother OldRegular gave you, what that offender did, was already "widespread news", so someone going to them, and them alone, was already past and gone. The next step is to take one or two with you, and if they won't hear him, bring them before the church....but the whole church had already known about, seeing they were in the hospital. So, since they weren't able to go before the church due to their injuries running from the law, mind you, the church went to them, and gave them their chance, and they wouldn't go along with what they recommended, and excommunication was the only viable option left.

    Listen, reconciliation should always be the first thing any local church should try to obtain. TBS, when someone, who was a professing christian, that bore corrupt fruit, who was offered the time to explain themselves before the church, and turns that opportunity down, has excluded themselves, imo.

    If an allegation was thrown my way, I would call my Moderator PRONTO, and request a special meeting, and tell them what was said about me. I wouldn't want anything I did to bring reproach upon Little Martha, and especially the name of Jesus Christ.


    When someone's shacked up with another, and they are supposed to be a christian, and they are "mum" about it, something's amiss.
     
    #31 convicted1, Feb 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2013
  12. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Isn't being brought before the church part of the Biblical disciplining process whereby the person did not receive the counsel of one at first, then two, and then before the church?

    If it is done in the correct Biblical order after the one on one and two, then BIBLICALLY he is to be brought before the church with the intent that he recognize the need for repentance.

    If the church didn't go throught the process, then they are wrong.
     
    #32 Zaac, Feb 6, 2013
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So gossip overrides the Scriptures? So what if there is a lot of gossip and news has spread. That means nothing. A man lies to his wife and your whole town knows it. Does he have to stand before the whole town to confess - or does he have to confess to his wife?

    You say that because everyone knew, the time of one going to him is gone. Why is that? I don't see that in Scripture at all.

    I would disagree with "explaining themselves before the church" as well because that is not Biblical.

    I would hope the name of Jesus would be more important than Little Martha.

    I agree. But in the case that we had, the man was not a believer nor was his girlfriend.
     
    #33 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yep - and apparently in the case of what OR has said, the church went with a delegation and demanded that the man stand before the church to "make amends". I do not see that as going through ANY process and thus is wrong.
     
    #34 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  15. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    If that is true, then the church is out of order and shouldn't very well expect to bring someone else into God's order if they are not operating in God's order.

    And make amends for what? Did he wrong an individual in the church? This sounds kinda crazy. If he sinned against God, being brought before the Church is supposed to be about giving him the opportunity to repent and make amends with God where he wouldn't do so before.

    But this seems to be the type of behavior you get from the church when certain sins and individuals are stigmatized.
     
    #35 Zaac, Feb 6, 2013
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree. We've dealt with offenses before at church and rarely does it need to be brought before the church. If it is a matter of gossip that has made it known to everyone a simple word spoke from the pulpit from the pastor with instruction on church discipline would suffice. "I know you have heard about a certain individual who attends this church and I wanted to let you all know that gossip is not the proper way to deal with this. Your church leaders are addressing the issue with the individual and if it needs to come before the church, that will happen. Until that happens, please stop spreading information that has nothing to do with you."
     
    #36 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    In post #10 of the thread "unmarried Couples" I posted the following:

    On the particular day the above occurred I was visiting the Church. I presented in the above post my understanding of the events that resulted in the exclusion of a member. Notice I did not mention the passage from Matthew dealing with church discipline. I did not mention the passage from 1 Corinthians dealing with Church discipline. I indicated above that I thought the action of the Church was appropriate. I still do about 40 years later.

    It is very sad that there has been so much distortion and lies propagated about this simple story; I believe more than I recall about any other post on this Forum. Sadly one of the people whom I had come to respect over the years is the worst offender. In her latest remarks about me and the above incident [post #18 in response to convicted1] she tells the board the following:

    Ann knows that is false. The question I have is why all the uproar by Ann. It is a mystery at least to me and perhaps to her.
     
    #37 OldRegular, Feb 6, 2013
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You might look at post #13 and 14 of the thread "unmarried couples"!
     
    #38 OldRegular, Feb 6, 2013
  19. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    OH! You're talking about preachinjesus - because there is a member here "PJ" and I thought you meant her!
     
    #39 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    You have no idea what I use because of this post?

     
    #40 annsni, Feb 6, 2013
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