Church leaves SBC, N.C. convention over anti-Quran sign controversy

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by gb93433, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Associated Baptist Press
    June 8, 2005

    Church leaves SBC, N.C. convention over anti-Quran sign controversy

    By Steve DeVane

    FOREST CITY, N.C. (ABP) -- The church that received national media attention in late May for a sign that said the Muslim holy book should be put in a toilet has withdrawn from the Southern Baptist Convention.

    The congregation of Danieltown Baptist Church in Forest City, N.C., also voted to leave the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina and the Sandy Run Baptist Association, a local affiliation of churches.

    Creighton Lovelace, the church's pastor, said the June 5 vote to become an independent Baptist church was unanimous. About 22 people -- a typical number for the tiny church -- attended the regular monthly business meeting in which the vote took place, he said.

    Lovelace's sign had read, "The Koran needs to be flushed!"

    It was an apparent reference to a now-retracted Newsweek article saying American military officials had mistreated the Quran in handling war prisoners and suspected terrorists incarcerated at the Guantanamo Bay detention center in Cuba. The article quoted an unnamed official as saying an internal government report had confirmed one inmate's accusation that a guard at the prison had flushed pages of the Islamic scriptures down a commode.

    Reports about the accusation reportedly inflamed an anti-American mob in Afghanistan, which erupted into a riot that resulted in 16 deaths. Although Newsweek retracted the story when its source backed away from the claim, Pentagon officials admitted May 26 that an investigation had uncovered other intentional mistreatment of the Quran at the hands of American personnel.

    As for Lovelace's sign, an American Muslim civil-rights group first brought it to national attention May 23. Soon, other civic and religious leaders were criticizing it, including a critique from the head of the SBC Executive Committee.

    "Now I realize how offensive this is to them, and after praying about it, I have chosen to remove the sign," Lovelace said in a written statement. "I apologize for posting that message and deeply regret that it has offended so many in the Muslim community."

    Lovelace said the church pulled out of the organizations for several reasons. Some church members indicated a desire that the church become independent before the sign controversy, he said. Meanwhile, according to Lovelace, some raised concerns that the sign issue could endanger Southern Baptist missionaries serving in majority-Muslim countries.

    Church members had also read what Lovelace called "editorials" by Tony Cartledge, editor of North Carolina Baptists' Biblical Recorder newspaper. Lovelace said the articles were "scathing" in their opposition to the church and to him.

    The "editorials" Lovelace referred to did not appear in print but rather were entries in an interactive weblog on the paper's site called "Editor's Journal." Weblogs, rapidly growing in popularity, are online communities in which a "blogger" provides background information not ordinarily found in news stories, or expresses brief opinions about various topics. Registered users are then invited to respond with further information or their own opinions.

    Lovelace said he had also read an article called "Why I am not Southern Baptist," distributed by the Fundamental Baptist Information Service. In the article, the author, David Cloud, lists 13 reasons, including his belief that the SBC is ecumenical, that SBC churches are not governed scripturally because their deacons have too much authority, and that worldliness is rampant in SBC churches and schools.
     
  2. shannonL

    shannonL
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    The "Biblical Recorder" of the NC state Conv. of the SBC has NEVER been a friend to the conservative people of the state. It has a well documented history of very bias editorals. I grew up as a southern baptist in NC.

    Funny thing, we never go crazy and kill people over here everytime they burn an american flag in the middle east.

    I'm not agreeing with the sign. Although it was catchy. Why don't the media report how those terrorist down there in Guantanomo are always trying to test our boys?

    Why doesn't newsweek move their headquarters to Iraq or Iran or maybe N.Korea. Oh yeah! because in a place like N. Korea the dictator would just kill everybody that works for Newsweek then burn their building down. Thats the way to support your country just stand up for the poor prisoners down at Guantanamo who are getting better healthcare and dental care than alot of Americans. These little commie / socialist wouldn't last five minutes if they had to risk their lives for what they wrote.


    I would have appreciated pastor lovelace alot more if he would have put a sing out that said
    flush Newsweek down the toliet.

    In a situation like pastor lovelace's is where the hypocrisy of the "tolerant crowd" will reveal itself. Will they accept his forgiveness since he did acknowledge his blunder? No they will want to burn him at the stake.

    Was the sign appropriate? No. Would it be a good idea to flush Qurans down the toliet? Well, that would be one less in the world that would spread its false teaching. We get mad at a fellow for demonstrating a little American Red Blood even if it was in poor taste. Yet, we have some kind of Muslim society here in the states that is giving out free Qurans to anybody that wants one. Claiming that they are doing it to educate people so they will have a better understanding of Muslim teaching. Yeah Right! I got a bridge over water in Arizona I want to sell ya!
    They want to indocrtrinate people at the very most.At the very least they want people to feel sympathetic in order to sneak in more and more under the radar.
    My father in law was a missionary in Central Africa his whole life. Come to my house and I'll show you picture after picture of African pastors from the CHad that died at the hands of Muslims.

    Other than using a Quran to refute Islam I don't see one good reason in keeping it around. It is from the pit of hell like all other false religion. Its hateful teaching has decieved millions of blinded people. So in context I say
    FLUSH AWAY!
     
  3. gb93433

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    In the church I attend we have a number of visitors who come from other countties who are here for business reasons and a number of the Christians work with them and invite them to church. For most it is the first time they have seen a Bible and been to a Christian church. Can you imagine what they would think seeeing a sign that bashed their religion before they came in the door? Many are curious waht Christians believe and what a church looks like. They are smart intelligentr people. It is very much disrespectful of their beliefs to bash what they believe and they know nothing else. Probably for most they know of nothing that is different to compare to. If they are bombarded with judgment they will most likely feel unwelcome. Often people will be scared off with the packaging and not by the truth. A person who knows nothing cannot intelligently discuss the Bible and compare it to their religion. So if we blast away they will her that rather than the gospel they should hear.
     
  4. Ben W

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    I think it is interesting that the Pastor mentioned the problems that it could cause for Baptist missionaries in muslim nations. He is certainley correct, in western nations a story like this may well not even make the evening news, you can be garanteed however that it is on all the networks over in muslim nations. You can further be garanteed that the local missionaries would be made responsable for it and maligned even though they had nothing to do with it.
     
  5. Songbird

    Songbird
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    Why couldn't his sign have said something positive like "God's Word is the Only Word." I know not as catchy, but we just alienated the Muslim community that could have been won through the love of Christ. And the world's view of Christians being ignorant and bigoted was reinforced. Sad!

    I know the Koran is full of lies, but it's still a holy book to Muslims. Posting a sign like that isn't going to bring more people into the church who need to hear the message of Christ.

    It sounds like that church wants to remain small--they are doing a good job if they continue to be so judgmental that people don't see the love of Christ--and are drawn to Him.

    Take care.
     
  6. Lawson-

    Lawson-
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    I think showing people where they are wrong and introducing them to Jesus Christ is pretty loving. If we say nothing to these people then they hear nothing and we know this "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." That is where people are going wrong today. Don't you think Billy Sunday and Charles Spurgeon stepped on some toes to defend the Word of God. Were they bigoted and mean as well?

    Luke 21:17:
    "And ye shall be hated of all men for my names sake. "
     
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
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    I don't mind being hated for Jesus' name sake. His love expressed through his witnesses can overcome their hate.

    I do mind being hated for being hateful. Christ's love cannot be expressed in the hate of his witnesses.
     
  8. Lawson-

    Lawson-
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    Was Jesus pleasent with false teachers? I do not hate the people I hate the false teachings that are sending millions to hell and I will voice this distain of false teachings until the day I go home. It may not have been the best thing for this preacher to put that on his sign, but at least he had the guts to speak out on islam. Seems like too many people now days who claim to be christians are just push overs and do not have the backbone to defend their faith. Muslims are thriving off of this and getting their agenda pushed along. Too many people are too concerned with being politically correct that they will not step up and speak out. Now you have schools in California that have a month dedicated to learning about islam. They take muslim names and learn about muslim beliefs. WHY ARE WE LETTING THIS HAPPEN!!! Could you imagine if we had a public school having a Christian month what would happen. It is a double standard and we need to start defending the name of Jesus Christ.
     
  9. Gold Dragon

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    This sign did not address a single false teaching of Islam. It had one purpose and it was not to address false teachings.
     
  10. Lawson-

    Lawson-
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    It said flush the koran. The koran is a book that is full of false teachings. False teachings are worthless and should be thrown out. That is exactly what the sign said.
     
  11. ktn4eg

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    Not that I necessarily condone flushing a Quran (Koran) down one's commode, but my question is this:

    Have any of you ever actually TRIED flushing a Koran down your bathroom commode?

    Given the size of the typical Koran, it'd be next to impossible to flush it down the average person's bathroom commode.

    Moreover, if your commode happens to be one of those newfangled "lo-flow" ones that requires 3-4 flushes to completely flush it, attempting to flush down an entire Koran down its tubes would probably result in stopping up your sewer lines, thus necessitating calling a plumber---not a very cost-effective move, I'd say.

    BTW, where was the world-wide outrage when the Islamic Palestinian terrorists occupied the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem a couple years back? They held its occupants captive and ransacked its contents, destoying several Bibles in the process.

    I venture to say that few Christian organizations rose up in protest about the fact that our Holy Scriptures were destoyed, nor do I doubt that any Islamic-controlled government protested this act of desecrating the holy scriptures of Christianity.

    Newsweek admitted it printed falsehoods, but because they are only accountable to their subscribers, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to read about Newsweek being hauled before a court of law for printing falsehoods.

    IMHO, it looks as if some folks want it both ways.
     
  12. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
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    How is that addressing any of those false teachings?

    If someone says that the bible is false and worthless and should be flushed down the toilet, are they addressing any of the teachings in the bible?
     
  13. Lawson-

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    That is exactly right. There is double standard and it is so obvious it is sick. And it happens because people who claim to be Christian have no backbone and refuse to take a stand. Gold Dragon, if you want to coddle up to islam be my guest, I will not give in. It is false teaching. If someone were to throw away the Bible it would tell me they thought it was false. The same goes with flushing the koran. Notice on that sign he had a radio address to tune into hear the truth. You know that people who were mad about probably tuned in just to hear what he had to say about it so they could use it against him. It might have gave them the opportunity to hear the gospel. Whos to say nobody was saved because they saw that sign and tuned into the radio station? My objective is winning souls to the Lord, you will step on some toes sometimes staying true to the Word but in the end it is worth it.
     
  14. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
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    It is false teaching.

    God may be gracious sometimes and use our sin as part of someone else's journey to Him. I wouldn't bet on that or use it to justify sin.
     
  15. patrick

    patrick
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    Lawson,

    I am a consesvertive Southern baptist. How is that showing the love of Christ. We want to win em to Jesus not tick them off. If someone made that statement about the Bible I would get pretty redneck. We are to show the love of Christ and not our own bigoted attiudes.
     
  16. Lawson-

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    It is false teaching.

    Are you saying islam is not false teaching?


    God may be gracious sometimes and use our sin as part of someone else's journey to Him. I wouldn't bet on that or use it to justify sin.
    </font>[/QUOTE]How is posting that message sin? Are you kidding me? Saying that the koran is trash is sin? Was it a sin when Jesus called out the scribes and phharisees?
    Matthew 23:33:
    "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

    Calling out falsehoods is not sin, it is just you compromising to appease the enemy.
     
  17. Lawson-

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    There are tons of Americans who are not fond of muslims and are not saved but applauded that sign. They probably then tuned into that radio station just to see what it says. I think that it probably did help win people Christ. It is not my bigoted attitude. Jesus Christ does not agree with the teachings of islam either.
     
  18. patrick

    patrick
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    WWJd? You don't condem that is not Christianity. Look at Jesus throughout his time on earth. You can disagree and not look redneck about it. Jesus is the answer!!!! Not trying to alianate thousands of lost souls. The church is to be an example to lost world. The only thing this church did was lower itself to worldly standers!!!!!!!
     
  19. Lawson-

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    You are giving in to worldly pressures by accepting and not standing up to the politically correct pro muslim movement. Christians get trampled while everyone else gets protected. It is because we have no back bone. Christ defended the Gospel and refuted false teachers.
     
  20. patrick

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    I am not. I will say it's false teaching. We just need to win the fight spritually. I do not give a rip about politics. We are to show Christ and not our next door neighbor Bubba. I am an American but I am God's child 1st. Backbone isn't a stupid quote on a sighn. It is liviving a Christ filled life day in and day out. It is easier to hate than love. We lose respectabiltiy by sinking to worldly ways.

    Lawson I unashamedly proclaim Jesus Lord of my Life. I will influence more people by showing Christ in my life than by put down others.
     

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