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Church leaves SBC, N.C. convention over anti-Quran sign controversy

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by gb93433, Jun 8, 2005.

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  1. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Condemning and being offensive is not a sin. Jesus called them these offensive terms in the midst of a scathing condemnation of what the Pharisees did wrong.

    What is a sin is being malicious and causing strife, especially when revealing truth was not any part of those actions. If the pastor felt he did no wrong, why did he need to repent? I hope he does learn from this experience and actually get involved in ministries that reach out to Muslims to reveal the truth to them. Maybe some good will come out of this.
     
    #21 Gold Dragon, Jun 9, 2005
  2. Lawson-

    Lawson- New Member

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    He listed a radio station and said tune in for the truth. It was to get people to hear the Gospel message that saves us. He was condemning false the false teachings of the koran. I am sure people tuned into that station, some who were outraged and just wanted to see what was said, and others who were not christian but did not like muslims.
     
    #22 Lawson-, Jun 9, 2005
  3. Songbird

    Songbird New Member

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    I wonder how many people came to Christ b/c of that sign. I wasn't saying to not address sin and just be mushy sweet. But I think there are better ways of getting the message across w/o alienating people and putting them of the defense immediately. I still say he was just reinforcing the world's view of Christians as arrogant, bigoted and discriminating. I'm not saying the world's view of me matters, but I want them to see Jesus in me.

    Jesus didn't do that. Many people were drawn by his compassion and genuine concern for them. He is the only one that can cast stones--yet He chooses not to.

    With Jesus it was never about being right (He always was), it was about how he could build the kingdom of God by adding souls.

    I go back to my first statement--How many people came to Christ b/c of that sign. Better yet, how many people were driven away from Christ.
     
    #23 Songbird, Jun 9, 2005
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The sad thing is that foreigners believe that America is a Christian nation and then they come and see it for themselves. Once they arrive their view changes. Their view of Christianity is Bush. Their view of Christianity is Howard Stern. Their view of Christianity is hedonism. Most of them are shocked. Then they get slapped in the face with a sign on a church saying something that disrespects their holy book. (In fact they are shocked when Americans show disrespect toward the Bible). Often they have met few if any real Christians. How does that change their view of Christianity?

    There is absolutely no room for disrespect of any kind from a Christian to anyone.

    Don't think for a minute that non-Christians don't know about these things in the news. A number of them are visiting this country for the first time. They are experiencing culture shock and imagine what it would be like to read a sign posted on a church that says in effect Americans disrespect what they respect. Isn't that very arrogant?

    There are Muslims who teach at the university where I am. Some of the students are Muslims from other countries. Several know I am a Christian. Just imagine what it would be like for me to try and witness to a Muslim if I told them they should flush their Koran down the toilet. It would be like telling them something they have respect for is worthless when they don't even know what Christianity is.

    I believe Satan is using the man who posted that sign because the world will perceive that church as full of hate rather than getting out a message they believe is true. He needs to read his Bible and understand Jesus gave the attitude we are to approach non-believers with.

    Many times in scripture we see where the believer uses the person's religion as a springboard to get to the gospel.

    Acts 17:22-34, “So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, `TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, `For we also are His children.' "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said, "We shall hear you again concerning this." So Paul went out of their midst. But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.”
     
    #24 gb93433, Jun 9, 2005
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The only people Jesus ever condemned were the religionists of the day.
     
    #25 gb93433, Jun 9, 2005
  6. shannonL

    shannonL New Member

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    I love catholics
    I love Muslims

    They need to be won to Christ we need to understand both doctrines in order to relate to each in order that we may "speak the truth in love"

    I hate Catholic doctrine
    I hate Islamic doctrine both lead people straight to hell!

    I think some of you boys are more concerned about what your contemporaries might say about you instead of calling a spade a spade. It is not impossible to empathize with those under the sway of false religion and at the same time point out the gross false teachings of that religion with vigor and still have the capacity to be filled with a deep burden for souls or are lost.

    Islamic teaching is not a teaching that we want to spread in this country. If we do one day we will all be bowing toward Mecca. Would I share this with a Muslim whom I'm trying to witness to?
    Obviously not. Would I share it with other Baptist on the BB. I'm not ignorant. Even though that is how some of the people on this board try to insinuate if you don't demonstrate what love is "according to their definition"

    I believe in pointing out the fallacies of false teachers and those who promote it, teach it or what to adapt certain aspects of it into evangelicalism. If that makes me a "miliant fundamentalist" as some would like to label people of that persuasion then oh well.
     
    #26 shannonL, Jun 9, 2005
  7. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    The sign was inappropriate. Let's face it. That doesn't mean we have to agree with the Koran.
     
    #27 SaggyWoman, Jun 9, 2005
  8. Songbird

    Songbird New Member

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    Well put Saggy!
     
    #28 Songbird, Jun 9, 2005
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I think the sign was incredibly juvenile. It sounds like something some middle-schoolers would put up.

    We can tell the truth and take stands on false teachings without a sign like that. There are plenty of alternatives. I don't see how that sign would show anyone what Christ is about or how it follows the guidelines below.

     
    #29 Marcia, Jun 9, 2005
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Another thought:
    We are told in several places in the NT to love our enemies and to love those who persecute us. The main problem with that sign is that it was hateful.
     
    #30 Marcia, Jun 9, 2005
  11. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    In his book "The Cross and the Switchblade" David Wilkerson talks about the problems of some of the gangs that existed that were from different races, and it was brought up some of the derogatory names that they were being called. I wont go into details, but I am sure you know what those terms for people of another colour or race are and how they are often applied.

    Dave Wilkerson pointed out the first thing that Christians can do about it is to not use those words, because doing so is basically cussing anyway and it is not right for a Christian to behave in that manner.

    I think that Christians today could think a little harder on what words they use to describe people that are homosexual or muslim. The reason that those words or certain behaviour is acted out against those groups in the world is because people are afraid of them. Jesus set us free from all fear, and it is my view that Christians should not take part in any type of worldly racism against anyone. Yes we should seek to evangalise muslims, yet we dont need to be to them the same as the others in the world who insult them and treat them like garbage. They are people that God loves just as much as He loves you, they are created in the image of God the Father. We should do what we can to be used of the Holy Spirit to share the truth that will set them free, yet the Holy Spirit does not lead us to hurl insults or attack people in the name of Christianity.
     
    #31 Ben W, Jun 10, 2005
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