Church of Christ Question

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by JonC δοῦλος, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. JonC

    JonC
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    I have a question that may have been addressed before, but I can't find it.

    I have friends who are members of the Church of Christ. They believe that you must be a member of that denomination to be a Christian.

    I have a friend who moved from Michigan, and is a former member of a Church of Christ. He said that he had never heard of the idea that the denomination was the only true church until he moved to Tennessee. He was taught that the Church of Christ was a denomination that was founded on “getting back to the Bible”, and holding services like the original church would have.

    Is the belief that the Church of Christ is the only true church a “Church of Christ” belief, or is it regional?
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    My experiences tell me it's more generational. Older members would more likely hold that vies than younger. However my experiences are very limited.
     
  3. Bro Tony

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    I have had many dealings with the Church of Christ, including family. They do hold that they are THE church and that you must be apart of their group to get to heaven. It is not uncommon in the paper's religious section and on their church signs for it to read--"THE Church of Christ--Established in 33AD".

    Grasshopper is right about it being generational except for the fact that there are a growing amount of young radical groups and churches in the denomination.

    Bro Tony
     
  4. Bro Tony

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    BTW--

    Not only do they teach the matter of their church being the only true church, they teach baptismal regeneration. And some radicals hold that other groups are lost because of the use of musical intruments in the church. Which reminds me as a pastor in a small town many years ago our church and the church of Christ shared the same parking lot. One day I heard loud music, so I came out of my office to find the C of C pastor had opened the front door of the sanctuary and pulled his pickup up to it and turned on the radio playing loud instrumental music while he worked in the building. Seems strange to me.
     
  5. Frank

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    The questions should be answered from the scriptures. It is unfortunate that important questions are answered by he said or she said this or that. The real question is what does the Bible teach?
    The Bible teaches there is one church. ( I Cor. 12:13, Col. 1:18, Ephesians 5:24-26, Acts 2:47).
    The church belongs to Christ. ( Mat. 16:18, Acts 20:28, I Pet. 1:17,18).
    The church are the saved. (Acts 2:47).
    The saved are in Christ.(II Tim. 2:10).
    One must be baptized into Christ to be saved.( Gal. 3:26-29, Acts 2:38).
    All spiritual blessings are in Christ.(Eph. 1:3).

    Mechanical instruments of music are a product of the Catholic church in the 700's A.D. There is no scriptural support for their use in worship to God under the law of Christ. ( I Cor. 9:21,Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19, Mat. 26:30, Hebrews 2:12, Romans 15:9, Acts 16:25, I Cor.14:15). Consider the following:
    CLARKE "I am an old man, and I here declare that I never knew them to be productive of any good in the worship of God, and have reason to believe that they are productive of much evil. Music as a science I esteem and admire, but instrumental music in the house of God I abominate and abhor. This is the abuse of music, and I here register my protest against all such corruption of the worship of the author of Christianity.

    'I have no objections to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither heard nor seen.' I say the same." (Adam Clark, Methodist)

    CALVIN "Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists therefore, have foolishly borrowed, this, as well as many other things, from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to him. Paul allows us to bless God in the public assembly of the saints, only in a known tongue (I Cor. 14:16) What shall we then say of chanting, which fills the ears with nothing but an empty sound?" (John Calvin, Commentary on Psalms 33
    AUGUSTINE "musical instruments were not used. The pipe, tabret, and harp here associate so intimately with the sensual heathen cults, as well as with the wild revelries and shameless performances of the degenerate theater and circus, it is easy to understand the prejudices against their use in the worship." (Augustine 354 A.D., describing the singing at Alexandria under Athanasius)
    ROBERTSON "The word (psalleto) originally meant to play on a stringed instrument (Sir. 9:4), but it comes to be used also for singing with the voice and heart (Eph. 5:19; 1 Cor. 14:15), making melody with the heart also to the Lord" (A. T. Robertson, Baptist Greek scholar, Baptist Studies in the Nestle James, comment on James 5:13)

    We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it." (Spurgeon preached to 20,000 people every Sunday for 20 years in the Metropolitan Baptist Tabernacle and never were mechanical instruments of music used in his services. When asked why, he quoted 1st Corinthians 14:15. "I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." He then declared: "I would as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Baptist)
    BARNES "Psallo … is used, in the New Testament, only in Rom. 15:9 and 1 Cor. 14:15, where it is translated sing; in James 5:13, where it is rendered sing psalms, and in the place before us. The idea here is that of singing in the heart, or praising God from the heart" (Albert Barnes, a Presbyterian, Notes on The Testament, comment on Eph. 5:19).
    KNOX "a kist (chest) of whistles." (John Knox, Presbyterian, in reference to the organ)
    WESLEY 'I have no objection to instruments of music in our worship, provided they are neither seen nor heard." (John Wesley, founder of Methodism, quoted in Adam Clarke's Commentary, Vol. 4, p. 685) LUTHER "The organ in the worship Is the insignia of Baal… The Roman Catholic borrowed it from the Jews." (Martin Luther, Mcclintock & Strong's Encyclopedia Volume VI, page 762)
    I find it strange men practice that which the Bible and the founders of denominatioanlism were against. Wesley, the founder of the Methodist church, opposes theuse of them on scriptural grounds. Yet,the very denomination he founded, uses them. This is strange.
    My brother is a pospel preachre and places his radio in the building where the church assembles to worship. However, before worship begins the bang shang alang ceases. I find nothing sacred about a builidng having music played in it. However, I am opposesd to approaching God in worship in a way(s) in which he does not approve.
     
  6. KenH

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    If it wasn't during a worship service, why would it be strange?

    I was "born and raised" in the Church of Christ and left it five years ago when I was 43 years old. Those older than me tend to retain the "only true church" mentality. Those younger than me tend to have thrown off that viewpoint. Max Lucado is now more of the typical, mainstream Church of Christ preacher/teacher.
     
  7. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    It is also regional. There are churches in Massachusetts and Connecticut and I suppose other places in New England that call themselves Church of Christ that are Full Gospel in nature,
    (all nine gifts in effect) etc, etc.Laying on of hands and prophecy and such.

    Of course thats altogether differant from the COC in the southern USA.

    So it depends on what part of the country you are in as to what they believe.

    Tam
     
  8. Bro Tony

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    I think it is strange when any professing Christian divides their life into the category of sacred and secular. Our life is to be a worship to God, not just when we meet for a couple of hours on Sunday.

    Frank--the original question was answered. It was not to give a slanted Bible study from a CofC perspective. Surely you know that being on a Baptist board you would find great disagreement with the CofC view of baptismal regeneration and the view that they are the only Church. Also, you cannot teach that the Bible forbids any instruments in worship to God, you are making it not say what it does not say. Figure that out ;)

    That there are clear differences is evident. If that is your choice then you are responsible to God for that decision as I am for mine.

    Bro Tony
     
  9. KenH

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    Actually, that is not the Church of Christ argument. The argument is that the Bible does not authorize the use of instrumental music in the New Testament church; therefore, they cannot be used in worship of God in the assembly of the saints. The claim is that only singing is authorized.
     
  10. John Gilmore

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    No. The Church of Christ teaches that baptism is a means of fulfilling the law (work righteousness) not a means of grace (baptismal regeneration). Salvation is given due to the work of baptism rather than the gift of baptism.

    Their doctrines regarding adult, full immersion, and believer baptism are the same as most Baptist churches. The main different between Baptists and Church of Christ is that, while Baptists view baptism as a necessary symbol, the Church of Christ view baptism as a necessary work.

    [ July 02, 2004, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]
     
  11. Eric B

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    And then what follows, but quotes of various leaders ("He says this or that"), but no scriptures on instruments! :rolleyes: If they aren't mentioned there, then they can't be forbidden either, and it is an issue of liberty.
     
  12. Bro Tony

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    Semantics--either way baptism is needed for salvation in the teaching of the C of C. Therefore it teaches salvation other than through Christ alone. Not a biblical position ie, dangerous.
     
  13. Bro Tony

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    That was the point of my badly worded statement. There is no verse that states that singing is the only "authorized" way to worship in the assembly. Thus, they are claiming the Scripture says something it does not.

    Bro Tony
     
  14. KenH

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    It is one of the divides in Christendom. Some believe we can only do what is authorized and some believe we can do anything that is not expressly forbidden in the area of worship. There are good arguments to be made on both sides.
     
  15. Bro Tony

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    Ken,

    In this area I would agree with you. If one chooses just to sing with no instruments thats great. I kind of like it when we do it in my church. Just don't tell me that we are wrong for using instruments, for the Bible does not teach that. BTW- the last sentence was not directed to you, but to any group that would try to impose extra biblical requirements on others.

    Bro Tony
     
  16. KenH

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    The main advantage I saw when I was in the Church of Christ to not singing with instrumental music was that I could hear the words being sung by the whole congregation. Also, it was much, much easier to sing the harmony parts to the hymns.
     
  17. Bro Tony

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    Ken,

    I wish I could say the same thing. I love to hear a great song. Sometimes accapella, sometimes with bold music behind the words. As for singing parts, I am so bad at singing I just jump in and let it fly--It may not be a pleasant sound, but I pray it is joyful. [​IMG]

    Bro Tony
     
  18. JonC

    JonC
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    Thank you for your posts.

    From what I gather, the Chruch of Christ that doesn't hold that they are the only true church (there is only one in our area with this view, and they are not considered "real" Chruch of Christ by others of that denomination), are a yonger bunch.

    I guess my problem with my Church of Christ friends would be that they are teaching unsound doctrine.

    As far as instrumental music, I think I'd limit my worship in song to singing alone in the car, if I didn't have instrumental music. The fellas in the neighboring pews would support my decision.

    Thanks again for responding. The only exposure to Church of Christ for me has been since I moved to Tennessee. I guess my friend from out of state was in a more progressive church.
     
  19. Frank

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    Kent:

    Max Lucado is not a mainstream gospel preacher. He along with his congregation no longer fellowships the church. His congregation no longer describes itself as the church of Christ. This is hardly mainstream as I understand the definition.
     
  20. KenH

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    Okay. I left your denomination five years ago. I haven't kept up with the details since then.
     

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