Church of Christ? What?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ormond, Jul 18, 2002.

  1. ormond

    ormond
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    First time visit but I think Church of Christ is weak but sometime false doc.
    why?

    1) most NIV! ( KJV few )
    2) can't Saved Jesus
    3) Baptism before then
    4) force on Bible (but Jerk!?.)
    5) some anti - John 3:16
    6) false friendly
    7) most ingory to sinner!

    right?

    Bro Ormond
     
  2. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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  3. ONENESS

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    Try sign language brother.
     
  4. Multimom

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    Bro. Ormond:

    I understand completely.

    They do tend to be false friendly because they believe that anyone who doesn't go to the "Church of Christ" is going to hell.

    They don't generally like outsiders because they are strong in the "come apart and be separate." They don't really care about sinners because they don't really like outsiders.

    I don't have too much trouble with them using the NIV but they do completely ignore and don't use the Old Testament.

    God Bless,
     
  5. Chemnitz

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    I do not see a problem with the NIV.
    I do understand the problems with the Church of Christ denomination.
    My hometown is full of them.
     
  6. ONENESS

    ONENESS
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    I dont believe they use musical instruments either. They are strange.

    God bless
     
  7. Brother Adam

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    No they don't. But that is because they are big on following everything that the NT church did. (you can't find one example of the new church using insturments in worship.

    Bro. Adam
     
  8. Frank

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    Ormond:
    I am a member of the church of Christ.( Acts 2:47, Mat. 16:18,Roms. 16:16). While I do not presume to speak for every congregation of the church, I will speak as directed by the Bible as it pertains to your concerns.
    First, The church uses many translations of the Bible. Most use the King James , not the NIV.
    Second, our congregation is very friendly. We seek out the lost and go into our community as directed by Mk. 16:15.
    Third, Sin separates men from God. Isaiah 59:1,2. It culminates in spiritual and everlasting death.Romans 6:23. The Bible does teach us to live Godly and separate from a sinful lifestyle. Titus 2:12, II Cor 6:16,17.
    Fourth,the church believes both the old and new testament are inspired of God. II Tim. 3:16,17. We study the Old testament so that through patience and comfort of the scriptures we might have hope. Roms.15:4.
    Fifth, Christians are to teach all things that are authorized by Jesus Christ. Mat. 28:18-20.
    Sixth, the gospel of Jesus Christ saves all men who believe it. Romans 1:16,17, I Cor. 4:15, Mk. 1:15.
    Seventh,we preach not ourselves but Christ Jesus the Lord and ourselves his servants for your sake. II Cor. 4:5.
    I could not understand some of the post. If you would, clarify them so I might understand your knowledge.
    Frank
     
  9. Dualhunter

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    When you say Church of Christ, do you mean the mainline Church of Christ that the ICC broke off from or the International Churches of Christ of which Kip McKean is head?
     
  10. SolaScriptura

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    If I meant ICC, I'd say ICC. Mainline of course.

    Like Frank said, I can't speak for everyone, but from my experience that's certainly not true. We do say that you cannot bind commandments from the OT like tithing and musical instuments because if you started doing that you'd have to bind Sabbath keeping and animal sacrifice too! Why is it that so many denominations want to take musical instruments and tithing from the OT but leave off the animal sarifices? (The answer is MONEY!) When I say we don't have tithing, I don't mean that we don't take a collection, because we do ONLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK but there is no set amount, everyone gives what they wish to give. Personally, I give 10%, but the NT does not specify such as the OT did. We live in the NT and follow it's commands, but the OT is still good for teaching concerning the Godhead and admonition, prophecy about Christ, etc. And, I also think the NIV claim is pretty false...the KJV seems predominate...but whatever.

    I don't know what you mean by "false friendly," please explain.

    [ July 18, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]
     
  11. Corry Cox

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    Frank,
    Am I wrong in thinking that the Church of Christ teaches that baptism by immersion is necessary for salvation?

    Acts 16:30-31 (NIV)
    (KJV)
    Later Luke records that the jailer and his family were baptized but Paul does not say: "believe in the Lord Jesus, be baptized and you will be saved".

    I have been thinking about this lately and am just looking for some reasoning.

    In His Service,

    cbc
     
  12. Frank

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    Cory:
    Yes, baptism for the remission of sins is a part of the gospel. Baptism is the method by which we become a part of his family and IN Christ Jesus where salvation is found. Acts 2:38;22:16,Eph. 5:26, II Tim. 2:10, Gal. 3:26,27.
    Frank
     
  13. Dualhunter

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    During my 2 weeks at the ICC over a year ago, they never refered to themselves as the ICC, always as the Church of Christ (though usually in French so l'eglise du christ, the reason that I know that it was the ICC was because I checked their website and recognized the leaders and the places where they meet) so not mentioning the International part doesn't really help much in figuring out which is which. I'd imagine that the NIV claim is mainly just confusion between the CC and ICC since as far as I know it is true about the ICC.
     
  14. Dualhunter

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    [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    [4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    [5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? - 1 John 5:1-5 KJV

    First this tells us that the way a person is born again is by faith in Christ (Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God) and then we are told how to recognize that we are born of God. It does not say that we are born of God by works rather it say we are born of God by faith in Christ, the evidence of being born of God is that we keep His commandments, and what are His commandments? The following tells us:

    [22] And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
    [23] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
    [24] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. - 1 John 3:22-24 KJV

    These next 2 verses deal with how God dwells in us and we in Him, and it is by faith in Christ:

    [10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. - 1 John 5:10 KJV

    [15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. - 1 John 4:15 KJV

    [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV

    If any man be in Christ, not if any man wants to get into Christ, nor not if any man wants to stay in Christ, but it says if any man be in Christ (1 John 4:15 and 5:10 tell us how to do that) he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    The thing that you don't seem to understand is that works play no part in attaining or maintaining salvation, if they did savlation would be by works not by grace. Works are the evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit, they show the faith of the Christian, they do NOT make the Christian a Christian. Works are a result of salvation NOT a cause.

    [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. - James 2:18 KJV

    Notice that James doesn't say anything about his works making him a Christian nor that his works save him, instead he says that his works show his faith.

    [6] And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. - Romans 11:6 KJV

    The above verse makes it quite clear that if it is by grace it is not of works.

    Read Romans 10, especially these verses:

    [9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. - Romans 10:9-10 KJV

    Ephesians 2:8-10 explains it very well:

    [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV

    Saved by grace through faith, not of works (Romans 11:6 makes it quite clear that grace and works are not the same thing so read the verse again). We are created in Christ Jesus (see 1 John again to see how to get into Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17 tells how we are created anew as a result of of being in Christ) for good works that we should walk in them, it is a result of having been saved by grace through faith not of works. Salvation is not dependant on how well you do those works otherwise it would be by works and not by grace (see Romans 11:6 again), it is dependant on genuinely being born of God (see 1 John chapters 3-5) and being born of God shows though not always as much as it should. The Bible is quite clear that we are saved by grace through faith not by works (see Ephesians 2:8-9 again) and by trusting in Christ we receive the Holy Spirit and as a result of the change that the Holy Spirit (not us we cannot be born again, made into a new creation by our own power) causes in us it shows in our lives that we are sons of God:

    [12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    [13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1:12-14 KJV

    When a person truly places their faith in Christ, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit which is a deposit which guarantees salvation. If you give a deposit, you do not get the deposit back unless you pay up. Now since the deposit is the Holy Spirit, nobody is going to be taking the Holy Spirit with them to hell so you can be sure that if you really ever had the Holy Spirit to begin with, God will pay up and it just so happens that what He has promised to pay is eternal life with Him.

    [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7:20 KJV

    If the Holy Spirit is truly in a person and working in his or her life then it should be noticable. Maybe not always and maybe not as much as it should but if the Spirit is there it should show.

    [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23 KJV

    The above are the signs of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you do not see those things in your life, you should ask yourself why.
     
  15. tyndale1946

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    Frank: Some on here say that the Church Of Christ claims to be the true church is this a true statement?... If it is do you all wash feet?... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  16. Frank

    Frank
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    Tyndale:
    The Bible teaches there is one church. Acts 2:47, Col. 1:18, Eph.1:22,23 and a host of other passages. In each passage the article the is a definitive one. It simply means one of a kind, unique.
    Furthermore, the Bible identifies the owner of the church. The church belongs to Christ. Mat. 16:18. Thus, the church of christ. Romans 16:16.
    The name describes to whom the church belongs.

    The Bible also teaches us the purchaser and the price of possession. Acts 20:28. Again, the descriptive term the church of Christ.

    The Bible provides us with the head of the church. Col. 1:18. Again, the name the church of Christ. The name reflects proper respect for the head.

    The Bible teaches us who has the authority in the church to commmand and teach ALL THINGS. Mat. 28:1-20. The descriptive term church of Christ provides honor to the king of Kings who has ALL authority.

    Those who are purchased by his blood honor the savior by wearing his name. Acts 11:26, Isaiah 62:2, Isaiah 56:5.He does not share his glorious name with anyone. Isaiah 48:11.

    Finally, the church does belong and is his church. Col. 1:12,13, Mat. 19:23,24;8:11;16:18 Luke 8:11-15.

    Yes, the church found in the pages of inspiration is the church of Christ.

    This is the church of which I am a member. Acts 2:47
     
  17. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic
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    Frank, you ought to go lie down between 2 buns. The most common NT name for the church is "congregation of God" or "assembly of God." And if Christ has one church and there were none which proved it by calling itself 'Church of Christ' until the 19th century, then the gates hell did prevail against his church for about 17 or 18 centuries.
     
  18. Chemnitz

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    Hate to rain on your parade but ah, Acts 2:47 doesn't mention the assembly.

    Just because a group of people had the audacity to claim the name 'church of christ' as a name for their group does not make them the true church. Besides from my experience with members of the church of Christ, I would eat my hat before believing they are the true church.
     
  19. Frank

    Frank
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    Cynic:
    I am aware the word is transliterated. It has many descriptive meanings. I also realize it is the called out people.Acts 2:47 It is the congregation, and assembly Romans 16:16. It is also the house of God,I Tim. 3:15,The kingdom of his dear son Col. 1:12,13. The Kingdomn of God. Mat. 19:24. The kingdom of God. Mat. 19:23.The church of God In Christ. I Thes. 2:14. The church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ. I Thes. 1:1. Those in heaven are the general assembly.Hebs. 10:23. Perhaps, you should spend more time in personal study instead of making inane posts about the knowledge of others. Have a good day.
    Frank
     
  20. rsr

    rsr
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    One of the earliest Baptist confessions calls the congregations churches of Christ -- they were more commonly called Anabaptists by their enemies and didn't want that label.

     

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