churches eliminating "Baptist" from name...

It is true we are trying to reach the lost.

However, when a church drops the Baptist name in order to "reach" the gay and lesbian and transgender community, as one I was a member of did, how do we then "reach" them?

Either we are going to have to drop Baptist teaching on the subject, or else we will at some point have to pull a bait and switch.

Either way is not good.

 

No bait and switch is necessary. One would presume that on the occasion that an individual found Christ and entered the church as a member, that they would be exposed to the doctrines of the church in some fashion. If not, then the larger question is, "Why not?"

In every "Baptist" church without the name Baptist on the sign out front that I have been a part of we have carefully explained in membership classes just who we were, what we supported, and yes, where we gave our missions offerings, etc. To do other than that is indeed to be disingenuous, but at the same time, folks that would NEVER darken the door of a "BABTIST" (spelling is intentional) church may actually discover once inside that those same people are loving -- and preaching the true Word of God from His divinely-inspired Word.

About the GLISTEN crowd... One would assume that we should reach them with the gospel, the same as every other lost sinner. Theirs is not the sin that is unpardonable. But we also should probably not build our entire service, doctrine, or methodology around that particular crowd unless that is the stated purpose of that individual congregation. My wife and I have a pair of lesbian neigbors that have visited our church with us. We get along fine and have spent the last several years building a relationship that leads to salvation.

 

The bottom line is why are many repelled by the word "Baptist"? Have Baptists or their doctrine become repulsive, have we changed, or has society changed and thus is repulsed by Baptist doctrine today? I would say if anything Baptists have become more liberal as most denominations today and thus the more traditional/fundamental churches look all the more different to society today. Since we look so different, the unchurched are told to stay away from Baptists, that we are intollerant and old fashioned, so the churches have decided to attract the unchurched by dropping the name. As I said before these churches if they are going to this length to attract unchurched then then most likely have already changed and weakened their doctrines.

There are still solid SBC churches out there and we have found one and we love it. We are there to worship God and be equipped and have great fellowship. They are not out to entertain lost people, but to reach out to them with the truth.

 

I have argued all along in this thread (and other places) that our names must be "on purpose" and that we either have Baptist in our name or not based on an understanding of the missional context of the area and people we serve and reach.

Just imagine having Baptist in the name of a mission in Saudi Arabia or Iran... Would it exist for as long as an hour?

But, but, but, that is different... Nope. It isn't.

Not trying to hide something, not ashamed of something, just doing what it takes to reach lost people instead of other Baptists -- which, BTW, seems to be the primary motivation for keeping Baptist in any given church name in this thread and on this board.

I've started churches in the north, where using "Baptist" in the church name means several things. First, it becomes unlikely that you will get the required permits or community support to actually start your new church. Some might argue that one does not need those things to start a church, to which I would reply very simply, when have you started a new church and tried to get things that existing churches take for granted? Not as easy as it seems once everything is up and running.

Second, it often means that the only persons who will join the effort are other displaced Baptists -- many (or at least some) of whom are in a war with their home church, which is why they are seeking a new church home. Just who one wants in a new church start... Also, typically (at least in my northern experience) those who are attracted to the name Baptist are often from the south, which is fine, except that they are not acculturated to the north and probably will never really be -- at least enough to be effective evangelists. There are cultural differences that are virtually in-born that have to be learned and they can be difficult, and attracting a host of people who don't know those issues ends up with a bunch of people calling each other "brother and sister" which never happens in a new church start -- especially in the north -- unless southern people who happen to be Baptists join the group.

Third, in some areas where people think that Baptists are a cult like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, just how much good is it to place Baptist front and center? Again, in the Baptist Bible Belt, EVERYONE is or knows of a Baptist. Go north of Chicago and try that... See how far you get...

I was on the first team of SBC missionaries to enter Newfoundland, Canada in 2000. We did ethnographies so that future church planters would understand the culture and know where to start in their endeavors. Now, think about being the FIRST team of Southern Baptists to enter Newfoundland! St. John's Newfoundland was a stopping-off point for re-supplying the Mayflower on its way to Plymouth Rock and no Southern Baptists had been there yet on mission? We searched and searched and found two (yes -- 2) Baptist churches on the island. We visited both. Neither were SBC -- good folks, trying hard, and utterly failing. No one would come in because they had the name Baptist on their signs. Both have since failed... We've sent up 2 teams of church planters since. One has failed, the other is still working, but not having much effect. I greatly fear that they are too "Baptist" for their own good! I know the people on both teams -- and I know that they would do almost anything, but at the same time, they cannot stop being "Baptists" and displaying that name everywhere. We discovered that the name "Baptist" means WAR in Newfoundland, but try convincing some of the missionaries that don't think so... (For the record, EVERY religion means war in Newfoundland -- but the people are open to godly "relationships".)

There are good reasons -- distasteful to many Baptists -- but that work in the larger context of God's mission, which (in the Bible) is NEVER called "Baptist" but rather, Christ and Christ's gospel.

 

glfredrick--my experience probably parallels yours quite a bit although we come to different conclusions.

I have been part of a church plant in northern climes also.

And like you, we found loving relationships rather than the name over the door would draw people in.

Initially.

But at some point you have to teach what you believe.

And if that was clearly baptistic out the door they went.

Now we live far more southern and among a lot of what you called the glitter crowd.

Take off the name Baptist and they come in droves. You are correct that homosexual sin is no worse than any other sin.

Thing is, it isn't any less sin either.

We didn't have to bring it up. Soon comments of "at least this church doesn't believe homosexual activity is sin" would come up.

And when you say, "well, actually we do" they are out the door.

Beulah ND has (or did have--not there now) an active SBC church that really made no attempt to hide who they were, what they believed, and was very successful.

I say all that to say anecdotes of pragmatism are worthless to me.

Scripture does not say put Baptist over the door.

But it sure as shootin' teaches honesty.

 

Yup...

Like I said. As long as there is a REASON that makes sense and is a part of the structure of the church.

We can all point out examples in both directions, so that isn't the issue. Probably much more what goes on inside the doors (or, outside the doors if the church is truly reaching the community!) than the name, but if there is a reason, then name it appropriately.

Church names are a funny thing anyway... They meant something to someone once, but today?

 

If you keep the name Baptist off the sign to "remove a barrier" that is dishonest. The church and the community is better served if the church works to over come "barriers" by building relationships rather than hiding who they are. And "removing barriers" is hiding. It fails to be up front and honest.

 

Why not work to change that perception?

I know plenty of people that are put off by the name "Christian". Should we stop identifying ourselves as Christian in order to help people's perception of us?

 

Its not only Westboro.....its allot of IFB's that come in "Flash in the Pan" & then close after doing some damage. NYC Metro area is also dominated by Catholics or else traditional Liberal Based Mainline Churches that dont cotton to "Baptist" ways that many consider strange. Bottom line is there are not allot of Baptists up north. There is no bible belt here but there is a Catholic Belt.

 

I have this terrific idea. Name your next church plant the First Not Westboro Baptist Church.

 

I don't know if this has been noted yet, but has anyone besides me noticed that there are churches that are eliminating "Church" from their name?

 

Then, I suggest keeping the name "Baptist" on your sign.

What is there about TELLING people that you are Baptist -- in specific detail -- that is difficult to understand.

 

Many have... "Christ follower" is the new term of choice.

 

Yep.

I say, "Follower of Jesus", "Apprentice of Jesus", or "Disciple of Jesus" rather than "Christian" among unchurched people.

I say it to distinguish myself from someone who is simply culturally-influenced, but rather someone who intends to be a follower of Jesus. I want people to know that I am expressing intention to be like Jesus, although I certainly have a long way to go.

It also immediately gives me an opportunity to explain the difference between just being a member of a church (and having had a baptism) to someone who is actively in relationship with Christ, learning how to live a life of transformation and grace, through the power of the Spirit and the fellowship of like-minded believers in a local church.

 

That's utterly ridiculous.