CIA torture report to be published on Monday without the word 'torture'

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    After a lengthy back-and-forth between the Senate committee and the CIA, however, the 600 page summary that will soon be made public — less than one-tenth of the actual report — will be ripe with enough redactions and wordplay to still leave much of the agency’s post-9/11 practices a mystery.

    “The summary is expected to reignite the debate over whether the CIA’s coercive interrogation techniques in the first years of the war on terror amounted to torture,” Josh Rogin and Eli Lake wrote for Bloomberg View on Wednesday this week. “Although the summary report is said to not use the word ‘torture,’ officials said it would describe practices that any layman would understand as torture.”

    In the midst of the months of delays brought on by bickering between the Senate and CIA over what to include in the public version of the report, it was reported in July by the Associated Press that people who read the report said the practices described within “amounted to torture by a common definition."

    Read More At: http://rt.com/usa/211487-cia-senate-torture-redactions/
     
  2. poncho

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    Kerry Puts Brakes on CIA Torture Report

    Secretary of State John Kerry personally phoned Dianne Feinstein, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Friday morning to ask her to delay the imminent release of her committee’s report on CIA torture and rendition during the George W. Bush administration, according to administration and Congressional officials.

    Kerry was not going rogue -- his call came after an interagency process that decided the release of the report early next week, as Feinstein had been planning, could complicate relationships with foreign countries at a sensitive time and posed an unacceptable risk to U.S. personnel and facilities abroad. Kerry told Feinstein he still supports releasing the report, just not right now.

    Read More At: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-05/kerry-puts-brakes-on-cia-torture-report
     
  3. poncho

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    The report found the techniques used were "far more brutal" than the CIA told the public or policymakers. Before the report's release, the United States boosted security at its military and diplomatic facilities abroad.

    The report said the CIA had tried to justify its use of torture by giving examples of what it called "thwarted" terrorist plots and suspect captures, but the "representations were inaccurate and contradicted by the CIA's own records."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/09/us-usa-cia-torture-idUSKBN0JM24I20141209?utm_source=twitter&utm_reader=feedly
     
  4. Sapper Woody

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    Poncho, I'm not sure of the goal of this thread. Are you trying to show that the CIA used torture, or trying to show that there's a political power play going, or something else?
     
  5. poncho

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    Everyone already knows the CIA uses torture.

    There's always political power plays going on. The lefties make allegations and place blame on the righties and the righties make allegations and place blame on the lefties.

    If that's a game you like to engage in then this thread will probably be a disappointment.

    This thread is meant to get to the story without the distraction of all the leftie vs rightie noise.

    No one is asking how treating people like this makes us look as a nation. On the one hand we condemn other countries for "human rights violations" while we engage in the same behavior.

    Are we a nation of hypocrites?

    In recent years, some detail on the scope of Britain’s involvement in US rendition practices post 9/11 has surfaced.

    An array of leaks, which surfaced prior to the publishing of the Senate's report, highlighted Britain’s collaborative role in the CIA's mistreatment and abuse of terror suspects. Of particular note, are allegations that British foreign territory Diego Garcia was used to transfer detainees via rendition flights, contradicting a series of UK government denials that Britain presided over such practices.

    http://rt.com/uk/212703-cia-torture-uk-report/
     
    #5 poncho, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2014
  6. Sapper Woody

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    That depends. The torture of the nations in the past has been for fun. The human rights violations we cite today is the mindless killing of innocents.



    The CIA has engaged in torture on known terrorists to extract information on possible terrorist attacks, in order to save lives. (I know it is up for debate whether or not they accomplished this, but that's not my point. My point is that was their intent).



    Is this ok? Well for me, the jury's still out. Will it make us look bad? Most definitely. Was it necessary? Possibly. Was it right? I'm not sure.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    I did not know that the CIA used torture. I doubt that anyone outside the CIA does! Am I supposed to take the word of the leading conspiracy theorist on the BB?
     
  8. poncho

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    You might better just stick with your conditioning. Accuse/blame the other side and defend anything wrapped in the flag or dressed in a uniform.

    It'll be less confusing that way. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #8 poncho, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2014
  9. poncho

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    Depends on who's doing the killing and what type of resources or assets are available in the country doing the killing. We've sponsored dictators that boiled people alive in exchange for an airbase.

    See Uzbekistan/Islam Karimov for more info.

    Known terrorists? Like those in GITMO that were released due to lack of evidence against them? The Afghans delivered prisoners who they claimed were terrorists to Americans. Why? Because they were "known terrorists" or were there other reasons, $$$ - revenge - jealousy - covetousness . . ?

    "Hasan has a hot wife, many goats and a fine donkey let's turn him into the Americans". "Hasan's cousin offended my family for years saying that water hole was off limits to our herds let's turn him in to the Americans".


    What's the bible say about how we're to treat others?

    Do we still believe in due process of law and innocent until proven guilty or are these ideas as outdated and "quaint" as the Geneva Convention now?
     
    #9 poncho, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2014
  10. HankD

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    poncho, the inevitable consequence of the leftie vs rightie chit-chat game is a fusion canyon 30 + miles in diameter.


    HankD
     
  11. carpro

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    The CIA uses "torture". big deal.

    No one has died from water boarding.

    Meanwhile, Obama kills innocent bystanders by the dozens in drone strikes and everybody thinks that's OK.

    Maybe the CIA should just shoot 'em when they're done and nobody would care.
     
  12. Use of Time

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    Well the big deal is that is in violation of both US code and International rules regarding the treatment of prisoners. Are you actually trying to compare military strikes on targets of opportunity to torture?
     
  13. Zaac

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    The whole country KNEW just like everybody else in the free world KNOWS. You may not have wanted to acknowledge it, but you knew.This is just another one of those things that people knew about but nobody talked about it.

    You'd have to be living under a shoe in the United States if you thought for a second that the CIA doesn't do all sorts of illegal stuff to keep America safe.

    And I really don't understand what the purpose of trying to prosecute anyone from the Bush Administration would be. The CIA has done these types of things from the time they instituted plausible deniability.

    It went on under Reagan, Bush I, Clinton , Bush II, and it's going on under Obama. Holding hearings and some bottom tier operatives responsible isn't gonna stop it from happening as the CIA will continue to do the dirty stuff that the American people don't like but allows them to freely not like it.
     
  14. InTheLight

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    Yep.

    Yep. There must be a particular individual(s) they are trying to attack without mentioning their name(s). Maybe the ploy is to hold the hearings to pressure these people to resign or otherwise quit the CIA.
     
  15. carpro

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    So you prefer dead civilians over live unhurt killers.

    Makes sense.

    Who said drone strikes are legal?
     
  16. Use of Time

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    Who said it isn't? You are talking domestic drone strikes?

    1. You have no information that those that were interrogated where "live unhurt killers." The CIA would extract information from WHOEVER they thought had the information.

    2. There has never been any proof that torture is in fact an effective method of extracting information.

    3. You said that "The CIA uses "torture," big deal." Well you see, it makes the United States looks like a bunch of lawless savages to the rest of the modern world and call me crazy, but I think we should kind of be better than that. Your mileage may vary.

    4. Not everybody is ok with using drones to take out American citizens and that has been a hot issue in this country since it's inception.
     
  17. carpro

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    So you still prefer dead civilians over live unhurt killers. If any have died due to waterboarding, cite a source. If any have even been physically harmed by waterboarding, cite a source.

    We have killed hundreds, possibly thousands of innocent civilians in drone strikes.

    My point is. If one conversation is worth having, why isn't the other? And really, which is the most serious? Dead innocent civilians or live unhurt killers?

    You want the moral high road, take it all the way. That goes for a biased partisan report full of lies and exagggerations in the Senate.

    Why talk about something that happened years ago ...and has already been corrected and not talk about what is happening today?

    So yeah, the biased partisan Senate report on "torture"...big deal. :rolleyes:

    Let's look at it for what it is, a political ploy to distract the public and take the heat off a floundering law breaking Obama administration.
     
  18. Use of Time

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    I like using the number system so lets recap.

    1. I never said anyone has died.

    2. If we have killed hundreds, maybe thousands then please cite a source.

    3. I fully agree that the drone discussion is worth having and have done nothing to indicate that I support such action. That being said you have the option to start a thread on that particular topic instead of using it as a smokescreen to divert conversation away from the OP of this thread which has nothing to do with drone use.

    4. Now in this thread you state "So yeah, the biased partisan Senate report on "torture"...big deal." Not so fast there. You said that statement originally about torture in general without referencing the partisan Senate report that you cannot prove is biased. Don't backpeddle on me now. You earlier said plain and simple, "The CIA uses "torture". big deal." That is quite different than what you are trying to distance yourself from now.

    5. Stop putting words in my mouth and murdering legions of strawmen. The whole "I like dead citizens" thing is truly pathetic and you conveniently ignored the fact that you are assuming that everyone that was tortured was a homicidal maniac when you and I both know that probably wasn't the case at all. If someone had information. The CIA probably went for regardless of their background.
     
  19. carpro

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    What? You don't like being done to you what you do to everyone else?

    This report is not worth talking about. this whokle torture thing has been hashed and rehashed...laws have been written to correct the problem. The problem simply doesn't exist anymore.

    So why is it brougght out now? Politics. Pure politics. A distraction for a willing press to take the focus of the American people off the real problems of today.

    That is my final word on this piece of trash report and all the poor souls who want to be willingly led around by the nose by democrats.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.

    I'm out.
     
  20. Use of Time

    Use of Time
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    Hmmm. Didn't refute a single thing I said. Wonder why.

    I guess I'll continue to get led around by Democrats like John McCain who seems to think this report is worth talking about. He of all people knows the effects of torture. I got news for you. If you think waterboarding was the worst thing that happened in these places you are sadly mistaken. The reports are starting to surface and they aren't pretty. Link below from John McCain addressing the issue.

    It's sad that that you are so wrapped up in the political brinksmanship that you can't see the bigger issue for us a nation. At least McCain can.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-lauds-release-terror-report/index.html
     
    #20 Use of Time, Dec 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2014

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